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best flight plan program


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#1 TheButler208

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 09:04 PM

Ok its my birthday in a few days and I want to get the best flight planning/navigation program there is for fsx to use with the level-d 767 and/or pmdg md-11.  I also want to have the latest approach plates built into my FMCs.  So I can load up the level-d 767, load a saved flight plan, that i saved with this new planning software, into the level-ds 767... all with the latest SIDS and STARs.

I'd also like this piece of software to display maps, charts, and plates prior to my flight.  I don't need this stuff during flight, just prior to.  What I am sick of is using some online planning utility, that doesn't have any approaches, plugging in the way points into the FMC, finding that half of them aren't recognized by the FMC, guessing on an appropriate approach (well I try hard by looking at appropriate plates) and finding that the approach I'm flying is completely :hrmm:-backwards.  

I'd like to enter KATL to EGLL, and the program picking appropriate waypoints, navaids, and an approach that fits the direction I'm coming from.  Save it as flight: whatever, and entering the flight into the FMC, and it just load up properly.  And, so I can see what I'm actually doing, and not the computer flying for me, look at the Sid or star prior to departure/landing so I can see what it entails.  Possibly some nice Jeppesen chart.  I don't like to just to ILS approaches, sometimes I like doing VOR or NDB  approaches to make it a challenge :-).  

So what I'd like:
Flight plan program
Latest Navaid info for level-d and pmdg if possible.  

Thanks,  I've looked around and searched the forum, I just want to get the right one.  Real quality.  I'm sick of getting by with the online flight planner.

#2 Dylan W.

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 11:48 PM

There is software for all your needs  :hrmm:
Routefinder: http://rfinder.asalink.net/ is an online flight planner which the flightplans are exportable to most payware plan formats.

NAVData : http://www.navdata.at/ is a place for downloading all the AIRAC cycles, at a cost.

SimPlates: http://www.dauntl...UCTS/SimPlates/ is a piece of software where you can open and view pretty much all of the  IFR plates there are to view! You can open them in-flight as well as in Windows, I Think? If you can't, it's easy enough to google [ICAO Code] Charts and all the charts open in a PDF, for free! But SimPlates X is great AND you can open them in-flight in fsx. But watch out, its 6GB!  :hrmm:
So, tell us how you get on  :P

#3 TheBearJew

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 03:36 AM

For flight planning you'll want FSBuild. It has performance/fuel burn data for the MD-11 and the 767. It is updateable with AIRAC revisions availble for free from the site. It will build you a route or you can import your own route. It will import the route into FSX. It will not display maps charts or plates. None will.

You'll need the TOPCAT program for your takeoff and landing data.

You don't pick approaches from the direction your comming from. They are decided by surface winds so you won't have any idea till you listen to ATIS at your destination or are informed by the controller.

US plates are free at http://naco.faa.gov/...co/online/d_tpp

Edited by DA JETPILOT, 22 September 2009 - 03:38 AM.


#4 THBatMan8

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 04:36 AM

I'm with the above poster on FSBuild + TOPCAT. You can get FSBuild here and TOPCAT here.

Navigraph also has a database of enrotue and terminal charts you can view via nDAC. It's payware, but it coincides with the FMC AIRAC updates. $50 USD buys you 350 points. You can then use the points to buy the FMC procedures and charts. Terminal procedures cost 2 points per airport, enroute charts cost 10 points per section, and FMC AIRAC updates cost 20 points per cycle. You'll need to buy a AIRAC cycle per developer so if you want to update your Captain Sim, Level-D, and PMDG databases (for example), it'll cost you 60 points.

There is also Planepath, which is a freeware alternative to FMC AIRAC updates but it's limited to only major airports in the US and UK.

Navigraph on the other hand, consists of a broader database of airports around the world.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 22 September 2009 - 04:49 AM.


#5 suddste

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 05:32 AM

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 22 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

I'm with the above poster on FSBuild + TOPCAT. You can get FSBuild here and TOPCAT here.

Navigraph also has a database of enrotue and terminal charts you can view via nDAC. It's payware, but it coincides with the FMC AIRAC updates. $50 USD buys you 350 points. You can then use the points to buy the FMC procedures and charts. Terminal procedures cost 2 points per airport, enroute charts cost 10 points per section, and FMC AIRAC updates cost 20 points per cycle. You'll need to buy a AIRAC cycle per developer so if you want to update your Captain Sim, Level-D, and PMDG databases (for example), it'll cost you 60 points.

There is also Planepath, which is a freeware alternative to FMC AIRAC updates but it's limited to only major airports in the US and UK.

Navigraph on the other hand, consists of a broader database of airports around the world.


And, as far as I know planepath only does terminal procedure updates. Only updates to airports.

And could I mention Flight Operation Center? It's very expensive, though.

#6 THBatMan8

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 05:44 AM

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

And, as far as I know planepath only does terminal procedure updates. Only updates to airports.

And could I mention Flight Operation Center? It's very expensive, though.

That's what FMC AIRAC updates are, and planepath's database is limited to the US and UK only. I was referring to Navigraph nDAC. :hrmm:

Edited by Da Bat Man, 22 September 2009 - 05:44 AM.


#7 suddste

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:00 AM

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 22 2009, 05:44 AM, said:

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

And, as far as I know planepath only does terminal procedure updates. Only updates to airports.

And could I mention Flight Operation Center? It's very expensive, though.

That's what FMC AIRAC updates are, and planepath's database is limited to the US and UK only. I was referring to Navigraph nDAC. :hrmm:


Is it? I thought there are navdata updates too? Navigraph nDAC is good, though, I've used it before.

#8 THBatMan8

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:08 AM

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 22 2009, 05:44 AM, said:

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

And, as far as I know planepath only does terminal procedure updates. Only updates to airports.

And could I mention Flight Operation Center? It's very expensive, though.

That's what FMC AIRAC updates are, and planepath's database is limited to the US and UK only. I was referring to Navigraph nDAC. :hrmm:


Is it? I thought there are navdata updates too? Navigraph nDAC is good, though, I've used it before.

Yup, at planepath, you download the AIRAC cycle, extract it to the desktop, and click on the EXE. It's a self installer so it's going to automatically locate the appropriate folder to install the terminal procedures (for the FMC). Remember that planepath is limited to only airports in the US and UK. No charts are included with planepath.

With Navigraph you buy a AIRAC cycle per developer. If you spend 20 points to buy AIRAC cycle 0907 (for example) for the Level-D 767, you can re-download cycle 0907 anytime from Navigraph's website. nDAC is a separate program you download from Navigraph's website. You install it like any other application and create an account (or log into a existing account) on Navigraph. Once the account is created you can use nDAC to buy and view terminal charts and enroute charts.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 22 September 2009 - 06:16 AM.


#9 suddste

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:17 AM

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 22 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 22 2009, 05:44 AM, said:

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

And, as far as I know planepath only does terminal procedure updates. Only updates to airports.

And could I mention Flight Operation Center? It's very expensive, though.

That's what FMC AIRAC updates are, and planepath's database is limited to the US and UK only. I was referring to Navigraph nDAC. :hrmm:


Is it? I thought there are navdata updates too? Navigraph nDAC is good, though, I've used it before.

Yup, at planepath, you download the AIRAC cycle, extract it to the desktop, and click on the EXE. It's a self installer so it's going to automatically locate the appropriate folder to install the terminal procedures (for the FMC). Remember that planepath is limited to only airports in the US and UK. No charts are included with planepath.

With Navigraph you buy a AIRAC cycle per developer. If you spend 20 points to buy AIRAC cycle 0907 (for example) for the Level-D 767, you can re-download cycle 0907 anytime from Navigraph's website. nDAC is a separate program you download from Navigraph's website. You install it like any other application and create an account (or log into a existing account) on Navigraph. Once the account is created you can use nDAC to buy and view terminal charts and enroute charts.

Yup, I've used both, both are great, I didn't know planepath did complete updates, but only for the US and UK. Anyone who needs free updates use these

#10 THBatMan8

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:20 AM

View Postsuddste, on Sep 22 2009, 07:17 AM, said:

Yup, I've used both, both are great, I didn't know planepath did complete updates, but only for the US and UK. Anyone who needs free updates use these

I like planepath, but lately I've been flying in the Middle Eastern and Asian regions (whenever I do get the chance to fly on MSFS), hence Navigraph is my only option. Plus having updated charts is a definite plus.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 22 September 2009 - 06:22 AM.


#11 audiohavoc

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 11:54 AM

For free, you can use www.flightaware.com to look at recently filed IFR flight plans to see what the actual routes used by airlines are.  They can be found under the "pilot resources" section.  This will give you the SID/STAR (the first and last waypoint in the plan), and all the waypoints in between.  I take this info and manually program it into the FMC in my PMDG MD-11.

For the charts/plates, I use www.airnav.com which is also free.

audiohavoc

#12 bigflyersmallbyer

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:18 PM

If you want the real deal there was a programe called F.O.C , flight operations center which was made by a group of dispatchers and developers . Its more or less the closest thing to the real industry equivalent flight planner. It take some time to get used to it but its very detailed and if your a serious simmer just what you need.

http://flyawaysimula...rticle2181.html

#13 TheButler208

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:32 PM

View PostDA JETPILOT, on Sep 22 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

For flight planning you'll want FSBuild. It has performance/fuel burn data for the MD-11 and the 767. It is updateable with AIRAC revisions availble for free from the site. It will build you a route or you can import your own route. It will import the route into FSX. It will not display maps charts or plates. None will.

You'll need the TOPCAT program for your takeoff and landing data.

You don't pick approaches from the direction your comming from. They are decided by surface winds so you won't have any idea till you listen to ATIS at your destination or are informed by the controller.

US plates are free at http://naco.faa.gov/...co/online/d_tpp

runway direction is chosen by surface winds.  But If I'm coming from the West, whats the point of using an approach that starts 70 miles or more on the East side.

#14 THBatMan8

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:52 PM

View PostTheButler208, on Sep 22 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

View PostDA JETPILOT, on Sep 22 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

For flight planning you'll want FSBuild. It has performance/fuel burn data for the MD-11 and the 767. It is updateable with AIRAC revisions availble for free from the site. It will build you a route or you can import your own route. It will import the route into FSX. It will not display maps charts or plates. None will.

You'll need the TOPCAT program for your takeoff and landing data.

You don't pick approaches from the direction your comming from. They are decided by surface winds so you won't have any idea till you listen to ATIS at your destination or are informed by the controller.

US plates are free at http://naco.faa.gov/...co/online/d_tpp

runway direction is chosen by surface winds.  But If I'm coming from the West, whats the point of using an approach that starts 70 miles or more on the East side.

ATC may not always assign you a STAR, and forecasted winds should be taken into account during the flight planning stage, as the more prepared you are, the less surprised you'll be later in flight.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 22 September 2009 - 12:52 PM.


#15 TheBearJew

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 03:05 PM

View PostTheButler208, on Sep 22 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

View PostDA JETPILOT, on Sep 22 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

For flight planning you'll want FSBuild. It has performance/fuel burn data for the MD-11 and the 767. It is updateable with AIRAC revisions availble for free from the site. It will build you a route or you can import your own route. It will import the route into FSX. It will not display maps charts or plates. None will.

You'll need the TOPCAT program for your takeoff and landing data.

You don't pick approaches from the direction your comming from. They are decided by surface winds so you won't have any idea till you listen to ATIS at your destination or are informed by the controller.

US plates are free at http://naco.faa.gov/...co/online/d_tpp

runway direction is chosen by surface winds.  But If I'm coming from the West, whats the point of using an approach that starts 70 miles or more on the East side.

Approaches never start 70 mi or more. STARS are whatt your talking about? The STAR is assigned from the direction you are approaching. The flight planner will pick the star for you when generating the route or go to Flightaware and pick a real world route and import that into the flight planner.

#16 TheButler208

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 04:17 PM

yeah i meant STARs

the level-d fmc seems to be way out of date as all the stars are named incorrectly or not listed.  

It seems if I get the latest AIRAC from navigraph everything should be current.  Then they also have a nice program called nDAC that has all the charts I'll need.  But can it do flight planning.  I don't need to do weight and balance flight planning, I already know how to do that.  I just want a route program that can save the route as a level-d file so I can just type in the flight number and it loads automatically.  I am not sure if nDAC can do this.

I like the route finder guys.  But I'd be happier with software that did the exact same thing on my computer, incase i don't have internet access at the time.  So, is there software somewhere that does this?

Looks like I'm going to go with FSBuild and the AIRAC cycle from navigraph.

Edited by TheButler208, 22 September 2009 - 04:31 PM.


#17 TheBearJew

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 05:02 PM

Don't forget TOPCAT for your dispatch paperwork like runway analysis. nDAC doesn't do flight planning or route planning. FSBuild is what you want.

#18 THBatMan8

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:20 AM

View PostTheButler208, on Sep 22 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

yeah i meant STARs

the level-d fmc seems to be way out of date as all the stars are named incorrectly or not listed.  

It seems if I get the latest AIRAC from navigraph everything should be current.  Then they also have a nice program called nDAC that has all the charts I'll need.  But can it do flight planning.  I don't need to do weight and balance flight planning, I already know how to do that.  I just want a route program that can save the route as a level-d file so I can just type in the flight number and it loads automatically.  I am not sure if nDAC can do this.

I like the route finder guys.  But I'd be happier with software that did the exact same thing on my computer, incase i don't have internet access at the time.  So, is there software somewhere that does this?

Looks like I'm going to go with FSBuild and the AIRAC cycle from navigraph.

Even STARs won't have a transition point 70nm opposite from your direction of travel, generally. You're more than likely selecting the wrong STAR from the list. Airfields will have STARs that will guide to to a point where you can begin the approach. STARs, just like the arrival runway, are subject to change throughout the duration of the flight and are based on direction of travel as you already found out.

nDAC can indeed do flight planning, but you're selecting the waypoints manually from a enroute chart instead of having a program like FSBuild do that automatically for you. FSBuild also has the capability of extracting flight plans to different formats, so you can use the CO-ROUTE (Company Route) feature on the FMC to load up the route. FSBuild also configures your cruise altitude automatically based on items like RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums), weather, aircraft weight, etc based on your settings. nDAC is also very handy at selecting the correct STAR, based on the direction of travel, and the category aircraft that you're flying (some STARs are meant for different catergories).

Edited by Da Bat Man, 23 September 2009 - 04:30 AM.


#19 TheButler208

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 11:39 AM

View PostDa Bat Man, on Sep 23 2009, 05:20 AM, said:

View PostTheButler208, on Sep 22 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

yeah i meant STARs

the level-d fmc seems to be way out of date as all the stars are named incorrectly or not listed.  

It seems if I get the latest AIRAC from navigraph everything should be current.  Then they also have a nice program called nDAC that has all the charts I'll need.  But can it do flight planning.  I don't need to do weight and balance flight planning, I already know how to do that.  I just want a route program that can save the route as a level-d file so I can just type in the flight number and it loads automatically.  I am not sure if nDAC can do this.

I like the route finder guys.  But I'd be happier with software that did the exact same thing on my computer, incase i don't have internet access at the time.  So, is there software somewhere that does this?

Looks like I'm going to go with FSBuild and the AIRAC cycle from navigraph.

Even STARs won't have a transition point 70nm opposite from your direction of travel, generally. You're more than likely selecting the wrong STAR from the list. Airfields will have STARs that will guide to to a point where you can begin the approach. STARs, just like the arrival runway, are subject to change throughout the duration of the flight and are based on direction of travel as you already found out.

nDAC can indeed do flight planning, but you're selecting the waypoints manually from a enroute chart instead of having a program like FSBuild do that automatically for you. FSBuild also has the capability of extracting flight plans to different formats, so you can use the CO-ROUTE (Company Route) feature on the FMC to load up the route. FSBuild also configures your cruise altitude automatically based on items like RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums), weather, aircraft weight, etc based on your settings. nDAC is also very handy at selecting the correct STAR, based on the direction of travel, and the category aircraft that you're flying (some STARs are meant for different catergories).

thats what i mean, without these programs, i have no idea what star to select.  So I'm going out of my way to hook up with a star that is not beneficial based on the direction I'm coming from.  And based on the KLAX BASET3 approach, i could easily find myself flying passed the airport more than 70 miles just to get the first way point.

#20 THBatMan8

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 11:55 AM

View PostTheButler208, on Sep 23 2009, 12:39 PM, said:

thats what i mean, without these programs, i have no idea what star to select.  So I'm going out of my way to hook up with a star that is not beneficial based on the direction I'm coming from.  And based on the KLAX BASET3 approach, i could easily find myself flying passed the airport more than 70 miles just to get the first way point.

You'll need to stock up on charts first then. nDAC also has video tutorials on how to read a approach chart and fly it if you can't do that already. FSBuild and nDAC are both relatively cheap, BTW.