63 replies to this topic

[Jetset]

The 'News' section has become a little development blog.    

They've addressed some of the concerns we've had, or at least tried to but I'm still not convinced.  

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/

Edited by Jetset, 09 December 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[Peter797]

Well sounds good. I just really hope they improve flight dynamics. Because even if they make their default aircraft for "EVERYONE" to use, meaning they'll be like their arcade style FSX aircraft, we're going to end up using add-ons anyways to compensate for the realism. Flight Dynamics would make things awesome.

Lighting as well. I want nice airport lighting like X-Plane, and I'm good to GO.


But their few words have brought my spirits up about Flight a bit.

I just hope they release like mid 2011

[pyruvate]

They're not answers the questions precisely, they'll filling it up with BS information and not hitting the point; in essence, like a politician

[-Dexter]

From their site... my commentary in bold...

Quote

We don't need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. You don't? But we do need to improve the total user experience if we're to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight. Oh, so you do need to make it an arcade game... The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. Different levels? Look: You either like FS or you don't. There is distinct value and strength to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can't claim to have done the best job of it in the past. Actually FSX had a decent user experience (excluding multiplayer) it's just that THE ENGINE SUCKED. FOR 'S SAKE FIX THE GAME ENGINE AND WORRY ABOUT USER EXPERIENCE LATER.

Edited by The_Grinch, 08 December 2010 - 10:00 PM.

[BrandonF]

Some people...I tell you!  

I'm quite happy to see these questions answered and I'm feeling relieved that it will for sure, be a simulator. They also appear to want to have better performance on today's hardware. I sure hope this happens!

Edited by Hughes-MDflyer4, 08 December 2010 - 10:31 PM.

[Kilo]

The_Grinch, on Dec 8 2010, 08:59 PM, said:

From their site... my commentary in bold...

It is sad that you are more bent on posting something negative then actually taking what was released in context.

We don't need to create an arcade game to welcome a wider audience. You don't? But we do need to improve the total user experience if we're to be successful in welcoming new audiences into the experience of Flight. Oh, so you do need to make it an arcade game...

Firstly, you seem to lack any idea of what user experience is in terms of software development.  The majority of modern MSFS users are either A ) More technologically inclined then the vast majority of other "gamers" or B ) Industry specialists or real world participants in aviation or aviation training. Microsoft got very lucky with FSX...product wise that is. FSX is very buggy, awkward and overall not the best simulation available ( by my and industry standards). FSX's marketing and availability coupled with it's networking support and flashy graphics ( many people bought the simulation just to push their monster systems to the limit ) are the draw factors for the product. Microsoft knows this and they are attempting to fix where they went wrong and make the simulation equally appealing to the die-hard sim community and other casual gamers. This ( as they have posted ) does not mean they are making an "arcade game". This means from a developmental standpoint, the experience that the user receives from the various components of the finished product are not affected by the user. It is like jumping into a prius after trading in your diesel truck...they are trying to judge how you will react and how easily you can learn and interact with the product. The flight simulation community is, metaphorically...jumping from an early model prius into a later model prius...they obviously have factors drawing them to that product thus they will be inclined to accept any changes made ( to some extent ) and be able to adapt. You cannot measure the end user experience of a die-hard simmer in relation to a brand new simulation product ...though that is arguable when applied to other simulation products ( FS9 -> Xplane... Xplane -> FSX etc. ), in the case of FS9 -> FSX -> MS Flight, it is true.



The passion and fascination of flight is powerful, with so many different aspects to aviation and different levels of enjoyment to experience. Different levels? Look: You either like FS or you don't.

You are making a rash assumption. I haven't played FS in a year because I cannot afford a  system that can run it properly. I have been doing more real world flying than FS flying. Let me summarize my point..I am turned away from the product because it is hard to run on moderately priced rigs, so instead I am shying away and waiting for a future product that will be more "nice" to my PC. So, I love FS...but I hate the latest product. Most are in the same position.

There is distinct value and strength to be gained by welcoming a wider audience, and we can't claim to have done the best job of it in the past. Actually FSX had a decent user experience (excluding multiplayer) it's just that THE ENGINE SUCKED. FOR 'S SAKE FIX THE GAME ENGINE AND WORRY ABOUT USER EXPERIENCE LATER.



Once again, you don't know what type of UE they are talking about so..null. Im curious to know how you have come to the conclusion "THE ENGINE SUCKED"...I mean you obviously have seen the architecture and code right? And, I'm sure they appreciate the feedback but understand that they are professional software engineers ( as am I ) and I am almost positive they know more on the subject of development and course of action ( in terms of software development ) than you do



To all:

People have been doing nothing but assuming the worst and belittling Microsoft for their plan of action. We haven't a clue of what they are planning for the final product nor do we even have a vague idea of what features they are adding/removing. So stop the negative speculation and let them develop the simulation and when it comes out..then you can post your inflated opinions.

Edited by Kilo, 08 December 2010 - 10:45 PM.

[Peter797]

+1 on The Grinch. They do fill the gaps with a lot of BS.

Main reason though. They don't want to reveal a clue about what they're doing. They're basically saying something new will be introduced. Now that we keep guessing it'll be arcade. Well I bet they can give 1 less.

[net1ninja]

Overall, these seem like marketing responses that simply raise more questions than they actually answer.

Example, here's that underlined phrase again, in answer to:
What does appealing to a wider audience mean?
  "... and introducing more persistent experiences for people who return often..."

Does the current lack of "persistent experiences" somehow narrow the target user market?
What makes this new aspect more appealing to a wider audience, more so than the current core user base?
What about those people who return less often, ... no benefit to them?
Can this actually be any more nebulous?

Edited by net1ninja, 08 December 2010 - 10:51 PM.

[-Dexter]

Kilo, on Dec 8 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Once again, you don't know what type of UE they are talking about so..null. Im curious to know how you have come to the conclusion "THE ENGINE SUCKED"...I mean you obviously have seen the architecture and code right? And, I'm sure they appreciate the feedback but understand that they are professional software engineers ( as am I ) and I am almost positive they know more on the subject of development and course of action ( in terms of software development ) than you do

The FSX title received two (just two) updates in it's lifetime. They were referred to as Service Packs.

Service Pack #1 came out in May 2007. Some time passed and obviously the ACES team was hard at work on Service Pack #2, which surfaced later in October 2007.

And then everything stopped. We didn't see any updates, and there wasn't a word from Microsoft. I guess they assumed that optimizations for 2007 technology would suffice for years? Please.

The lack of updates and prolonged support a little over a year past release has made me distrust Microsoft's ability to focus on a Flight Simulator product. I have no confidence in their ability at this point. They put a product on shelves, rake in the money, and then on the people who have bought the products since FS95.

Microsoft is probably hiring interface designers when they need to hire programmers and aviation experts to consult with them on a well performing, realistic simulator. We have racing games, boating games, and shooting games, it's time for a flying game. If Microsoft is going to dominate this market sector, they need to put out a game that's going to look good, run fast, and of course, be realistic.

[BrandonF]

Kilo, on Dec 8 2010, 07:40 PM, said:

To all:

People have been doing nothing but assuming the worst and belittling Microsoft for their plan of action. We haven't a clue of what they are planning for the final product nor do we even have a vague idea of what features they are adding/removing. So stop the negative speculation and let them develop the simulation and when it comes out..then you can post your inflated opinions.

+1!!

It has been 4 years since FSX. They are looking to start fresh and do better. (hopefully) Wait until the release to be negative, guys. We know it's not an arcade game. You should be thanking Microsoft for keeping the series alive this long, and not just go, "I don't know much about it yet, so it must be crap."

[pyruvate]

Kilo, on Dec 9 2010, 09:10 AM, said:

Hunk of BS response to another hunk of BS.

Oh dear .

Peter797, on Dec 9 2010, 09:11 AM, said:

+1 on The Grinch. They do fill the gaps with a lot of BS.

Main reason though. They don't want to reveal a clue about what they're doing. They're basically saying something new will be introduced. Now that we keep guessing it'll be arcade. Well I bet they can give 1 less.

Exactly, they're beating around the bush, and then beating around the bush on how they're beating around the bush

[Rimshot]

Great news to see the team give updates the public, however small. Their statements look promosing to me. Not surprised to see comments like those by Grinch though. Some folks only see the negative sides of things. Too bad. To all the whiners: go find another hobby please, if Microsoft and their achievements in flight simulation give you so much grievance. I bet it will make your life easier

There seems to be intelligence present here on these forums as well: Good post Kilo!

[Jetset]

Kilo, on Dec 9 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

To all:

People have been doing nothing but assuming the worst and belittling Microsoft for their plan of action. We haven't a clue of what they are planning for the final product nor do we even have a vague idea of what features they are adding/removing. So stop the negative speculation and let them develop the simulation and when it comes out..then you can post your inflated opinions.

I think the main problem is the lack of clarification that this will or won't be an FSnext type of simulator, which after all is what we, the enthusiasts, really want.
Yes it will be a simulator but their emphasis on appealing to a wider audience still concerns me. Are we really going to see any of the features we all wish for, or is the focus more on attracting the complete beginner who has probably never even taken a second glance at an aircraft in the real world?
I'm not saying that's a bad thing. If it works and 'normal' people get hooked and develop a passion for realism, then that will be fantastic, but I hope we get some new features as well (SIDS/STARS please)
These frustratingly vague 'answers' on the news section are just asking for critisim.
I'm looking forward to more of it.

[Kilo]

Grinch:

You don't have any clue ( nor do I ) of what goes on behind the scenes as far as development goes. You are trying to provide reasons as to why the game is flawed and you are reverting to a rash argument. You just need to understand, the development aspect is above you...you don't understand the process and in this case even the goal of the team, so stop trying to assume what is in fault and what the course of action for this product is.

But , freedom of speech. You just are coming off  like a game hungry 15 year old right now

JetSet:
I agree that the information given right now is not ideal, but they have said and continue to re-iterate that they are early in the development process. We all are looking forward to what this will offer to the community and series...but we all need to take a step back and realize that we have no control, little influence and that it will be months/years before we know what this product will offer. Speculation and people attempting to criticize Microsoft for their previous work and future work just needs to stop. You all hold this sense of entitlement that is shocking..

Edited by Kilo, 09 December 2010 - 10:02 PM.

[pyruvate]

Kilo, on Dec 10 2010, 08:31 AM, said:

Grinch:

You don't have any clue ( nor do I ) of what goes on behind the scenes as far as development goes. You are trying to provide reasons as to why the game is flawed and you are reverting to a rash argument. You just need to understand, the development aspect is above you...you don't understand the process and in this case even the goal of the team, so stop trying to assume what is in fault and what the course of action for this product is.

So we're supposed to believe the BS that MS gives us and give them our monies?

[-Dexter]

Kilo, on Dec 9 2010, 10:01 PM, said:

You just are coming off  like a game hungry 15 year old right now

I am not 15 but I am hungry.

GRINCH STEAL CHRISTMAS, THEN EAT.

[_NW_]

Hughes-MDflyer4, on Dec 8 2010, 10:19 PM, said:

+1!!

It has been 4 years since FSX. They are looking to start fresh and do better. (hopefully) Wait until the release to be negative, guys. We know it's not an arcade game. You should be thanking Microsoft for keeping the series alive this long, and not just go, "I don't know much about it yet, so it must be crap."

Quote

As we said in the introduction, we're still early in the development cycle, so the fact that you comment on the similarity to FSX is great!

That to me tells me that they aren't making a whole new FS,, they're trying to improve FSX...  maybe it's just the engine they're improving, and then adding new stuff..   which to me is a lot like what MS did to Windows7..  basically where it's just an improved version of Vista...  but as far as your first sentence goes..   this isn't a fresh start..   it's far from a fresh start..  and Microsoft doesn't keep the series alive..   aftermarket developers keep the game alive..

[Santa]

Windows 7 an improvement over Vista? Sorry, but most people think Vista is the stuff you flush down the toilet. Development of 7 started the day of Vista's release. Claims and time lines don't add up. Sorry.

Nice find, Jetset. Let's just pray all our concerns are answered thoroughly and in a timely fashion. Otherwise we'll get another dandy "paper weight".

[Kilo]

pyruvate, on Dec 9 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

So we're supposed to believe the BS that MS gives us and give them our monies?

Yes. They are making the product :| no one is forcing you to buy it. This is not a matter that will appear on Wikileaks in the coming weeks, I am pretty sure Microsoft is not lying to you.

Quote

That to me tells me that they aren't making a whole new FS,, they're trying to improve FSX... maybe it's just the engine they're improving, and then adding new stuff.. which to me is a lot like what MS did to Windows7.. basically where it's just an improved version of Vista... but as far as your first sentence goes.. this isn't a fresh start.. it's far from a fresh start.. and Microsoft doesn't keep the series alive.. aftermarket developers keep the game alive..

The development of W7 was in all actuality a complete re-work of the approach to the utilization of the new underlying Kernel and UI as opposed to a modification of Vista. Do not make claims that are false :| you are attributing to the ignorance of the world

Edited by Kilo, 10 December 2010 - 07:24 PM.