100 replies to this topic

[niteye]

Hmm the last ones don't differ that much, only the trees look a little stranger in FSX and the lighting isn't as prominent.

[Robin.]

It looks like they've added:

Dynamic soft shadows
Better land-class
More detailed textures & mesh
More realistic, darker trees
Ambient Occlusion
Better lighting in general

I'm happy with what I'm seeing so far. Let's hope it performs better

[BrandonF]

niteye, on Jan 20 2011, 03:29 AM, said:

Hmm the last ones don't differ that much, only the trees look a little stranger in FSX and the lighting isn't as prominent.

Really? I can point out about 20 big differences between the shots.  

[CaptainG37]

BrandonF, on Jan 21 2011, 12:01 PM, said:

Really? I can point out about 20 big differences between the shots.  

Please do.

[BrandonF]

CaptainG37, on Jan 23 2011, 05:52 AM, said:

Please do.

Screenshot 1: -Better shading on the aircraft
                    - Reflection on the aircraft that matches the scenery
                    - Smoother sunset/sun blending
                    - Rivers all over the terrain
                    - More accurate coast
                    - Higher quality aircraft textures

Screenshot 2: - More detailed terrain mesh
                    - sharper terrain textures on mountain sides
                    - More realistic trees

Screenshot 3: - Improved water with reefs visible
                    - Rivers throughout the valley
                    - More accurate terrain textures
                    - Better self-shadowing on terrain

Screenshot 4: - Improved cloud coverage/haze
                    
Screenshot 5: - Accurate/Realistic tree coverage
                    - Accurate terrain textures for location
                    - Less cartoonish sky
                    - Better Sky and ocean transition/blending
                    - Improved Airport background textures (maybe...hard to see as the airport is in the distance)

Screenshot 6: - Sharp terrain mesh and textures
                    - Accurate rivers/lakes
                    - Overall improved lighting

22 Differences   Ok, he was talking about the last comparison shot only, but still...

Edited by BrandonF, 23 January 2011 - 03:46 PM.

[CaptainG37]

BrandonF, on Jan 24 2011, 07:44 AM, said:

Screenshot 1: -Better shading on the aircraft
                    - Reflection on the aircraft that matches the scenery
                    - Smoother sunset/sun blending
                    - Rivers all over the terrain
                    - More accurate coast
                    - Higher quality aircraft textures

Screenshot 2: - More detailed terrain mesh
                    - sharper terrain textures on mountain sides
                    - More realistic trees

Screenshot 3: - Improved water with reefs visible
                    - Rivers throughout the valley
                    - More accurate terrain textures
                    - Better self-shadowing on terrain

Screenshot 4: - Improved cloud coverage/haze
                    
Screenshot 5: - Accurate/Realistic tree coverage
                    - Accurate terrain textures for location
                    - Less cartoonish sky
                    - Better Sky and ocean transition/blending
                    - Improved Airport background textures (maybe...hard to see as the airport is in the distance)

Screenshot 6: - Sharp terrain mesh and textures
                    - Accurate rivers/lakes
                    - Overall improved lighting

22 Differences   Ok, he was talking about the last comparison shot only, but still...

Well that's what I meant.  The last comparison.  So 3 improvements.  
And the lighting looks the same.

[BrandonF]

CaptainG37, on Jan 23 2011, 03:07 PM, said:

Well that's what I meant.  The last comparison.  So 3 improvements.  
And the lighting looks the same.

I'm starting to question whether or not we are even looking at the same screenshot.  

There may not be a number of differences in each shot, but one difference. About everything in the shot looks different in one way or another. Ok, Compare the terrain/texture. Different. Compare the Sky. Different. Compare the water. Different. Get my point? I think the reason you guys can't see differences is because you don't believe in the word "positive." Instead of looking at the bad sides of everything, try looking at the good sides. Maybe Flight could just happen to be successful...

And yes, the lighting looks the same because my comparison was taken during the same time of day. The shading on the aircraft mesh, however, is much improved. For example, look at the rudder...

Edited by BrandonF, 23 January 2011 - 06:36 PM.

[BrandonF]

Also, since I was listing the differences for all the shots, I didn't list as many for #1 because I didn't want to repeat the same reasons for all the shots. So, the differences in #1 specifically that I see are:

- Better shading on the aircraft
- Reflection on the aircraft that matches the scenery
- Smoother sunset/sun blending
- Rivers all over the terrain
- More accurate coast
- Higher quality aircraft textures
- More detailed terrain mesh
- sharper terrain textures on mountain sides
- More realistic trees
- More accurate terrain textures
- Improved haze
- Accurate/Realistic tree coverage
- Less cartoonish sky
- Better Sky and ocean transition/blending
- Overall improved lighting
- Distant terrain is sharper/clearer
- More details on the aircraft
- Improved Sun glow
- Accurate ground lighting for time of day

[CaptainG37]

BrandonF, on Jan 24 2011, 10:46 AM, said:

Also, since I was listing the differences for all the shots, I didn't list as many for #1 because I didn't want to repeat the same reasons for all the shots. So, the differences in #1 specifically that I see are:

- Better shading on the aircraft
- Reflection on the aircraft that matches the scenery
- Smoother sunset/sun blending
- Rivers all over the terrain
- More accurate coast
- Higher quality aircraft textures
- More detailed terrain mesh
- sharper terrain textures on mountain sides
- More realistic trees
- More accurate terrain textures
- Improved haze
- Accurate/Realistic tree coverage
- Less cartoonish sky
- Better Sky and ocean transition/blending
- Overall improved lighting
- Distant terrain is sharper/clearer
- More details on the aircraft
- Improved Sun glow
- Accurate ground lighting for time of day

Most of those are texture related.  

Aircraft Shading - Textures (Ambient Occlusion)
Sunset/Sun Blending - Textures
Higher quality aircraft textures - Textures
Sharper Terrain Textures - Textures
More Accurate Terrain Textures - Textures
Improved Haze - (I don't see the improvement as it could be weather related) Textures
Less Cartoonish Sky - (A few months ago I got slammed for saying FSX has a cartoonish sky) Textures
Better Sky/Ocean transition - Textures
Overall Improved Lighting - Textures
Distant Terrain is sharper/Clearer - Textures
More details on aircraft - Textures
Improved Sun Glow - Textures
Accurate Ground Lighting - Textures

So Overall, Flight will have better (different) textures than FSX.
But I won't judge to much atm.  It's still early days.

[ThrottleUp]

I see improvement. FSX weakest thing is its cartoony terrain and sky (although these can be banished by using Orbx, REX, FEX, UT etc). Im not a fan of XPlane but I will say this - Xplanes global terrain leaves FSX far far behind IMHO.

60GB of data comes on those DVDs and the sim takes 5hrs to install. I was impressed. FSX with that LOD on the terrain would be great, I hope Flight does this!

[CaptainG37]

ThrottleUp, on Jan 24 2011, 11:10 AM, said:

60GB of data comes on those DVDs and the sim takes 5hrs to install.

Actually, it's 74GB of data.  But who's counting...

[BrandonF]

CaptainG37, on Jan 23 2011, 04:10 PM, said:

Improved Haze - (I don't see the improvement as it could be weather related) Textures

I believe haze is not controlled by a texture, but just a bunch of code. Depending on how it's coded, it can have a better blend.

One more thing. We can't really determine features by looking at screenshots, so we will have to wait until we have the sim on our computers to see what other graphical improvements have been made.

Edited by BrandonF, 23 January 2011 - 07:55 PM.

[Daube]

CaptainG37, on Jan 23 2011, 07:10 PM, said:

Most of those are texture related.  

Aircraft Shading - Textures (Ambient Occlusion)

No. This is due to better lighting, which means an improvement on the DirectX usage in the graphic engine. This is not texture-related.

Quote

Overall Improved Lighting - Textures

As said above, lighting and textures are unrelated.

Quote

Distant Terrain is sharper/Clearer - Textures

Nope, this is due to the handling of the level of details (LOD RADIUS), so directly linked to the graphic engine, not to the textures.

Quote

More details on aircraft - Textures

I think your stuck in a copy paste loop. The aircraft details are due to 3D modelling as well, not just textures.

Quote

Accurate Ground Lighting - Textures

Same as above, this is graphic engine improvement. No textures will ever bring you that. This is not a simple content, it's a feature.

Quote

So Overall, Flight will have better (different) textures than FSX.
But I won't judge to much atm.  It's still early days.

Yes, don't judge it yet, wait until you understand better how a video game works
The textures will indeed be an improvement, but the main differences with FSX will be seen in the features, not the content.

Edited by Daube, 24 January 2011 - 05:52 AM.

[Spam]

Its hard to notice the difference to me, i think the arcraft is the same model but as pointed out i think they've tweaked the lighting in the sim, resulting in nicer soft shadows and a more natural look. These sots are nice but what i really want to see is the airport environment! If All the hubs have the same textures as fsx ill be pissed. If you've ever gone into the global texute folders you will notice that LAX and so fourth have the exact same textures as fs2004  

[-SE-]

ThrottleUp, on Jan 24 2011, 01:10 AM, said:

I see improvement. FSX weakest thing is its cartoony terrain and sky (although these can be banished by using Orbx, REX, FEX, UT etc). Im not a fan of XPlane but I will say this - Xplanes global terrain leaves FSX far far behind IMHO.

60GB of data comes on those DVDs and the sim takes 5hrs to install. I was impressed. FSX with that LOD on the terrain would be great, I hope Flight does this!

60gb? 5hrs to install? is Xplane that big? or are you talking about FSglobal 2010?

Edited by Ghost993, 24 January 2011 - 07:01 AM.

[CaptainG37]

Daube, on Jan 24 2011, 09:50 PM, said:

No. This is due to better lighting, which means an improvement on the DirectX usage in the graphic engine. This is not texture-related.
As said above, lighting and textures are unrelated.
Nope, this is due to the handling of the level of details (LOD RADIUS), so directly linked to the graphic engine, not to the textures.
I think your stuck in a copy paste loop. The aircraft details are due to 3D modelling as well, not just textures.
Same as above, this is graphic engine improvement. No textures will ever bring you that. This is not a simple content, it's a feature.]

How do you know if it hasn't been released yet?
Ambient Occlusion IS used to enhance the shadows in a vast majority of video games and simulators.

Daube, on Jan 24 2011, 09:50 PM, said:

Yes, don't judge it yet, wait until you understand better how a video game works

Umm, I've been developing add ons for a living for 2 years.   I think I know how a video game works.

Ghost993, on Jan 24 2011, 11:00 PM, said:

60gb? 5hrs to install? is Xplane that big? or are you talking about FSglobal 2010?

DVD 1 is the core flight model, all default aircraft, global oceans and all runways.  No scenery.
DVD's 2-5 contain all the scenery

Edited by CaptainG37, 24 January 2011 - 07:58 AM.

[-SE-]

CaptainG37, on Jan 24 2011, 01:57 PM, said:

How do you know if it hasn't been released yet?
Ambient Occlusion IS used to enhance the shadows in a vast majority of video games and simulators.
Umm, I've been developing add ons for a living for 2 years.   I think I know how a video game works.
DVD 1 is the core flight model, all default aircraft, global oceans and all runways.  No scenery.
DVD's 2-5 contain all the scenery

so it is XP10 that is 60+gb?`hah biggest game/sim in the history? call guinness,

[Daube]

CaptainG37, on Jan 24 2011, 07:57 AM, said:

How do you know if it hasn't been released yet?
Ambient Occlusion IS used to enhance the shadows in a vast majority of video games and simulators.

So what ? The fact is that the graphic engine of FSX does not use the ambient occlusion effect, while the Flight one seems to do. In the screenshots, we can also see that the whole shadow system has been totally replaced in order to use reald shadows instead of that stupid flat 3D shape hovering above the ground and that never shows correctly over bumpy terrain.

And for information, you can add ambient occlusion as post-processing effect via the ENB module for example, but the result is extremely poor and very heavy on the system.

Quote

Umm, I've been developing add ons for a living for 2 years.   I think I know how a video game works.

Programming is my work since 9 years, after 5 years of studies in computer science. Making a little video-game using DirectX and OpenGL was my end of year/final exam programming project. You made some addons. You get the difference ?

[CaptainG37]

Daube, on Jan 25 2011, 12:36 AM, said:

So what ? The fact is that the graphic engine of FSX does not use the ambient occlusion effect, while the Flight one seems to do. In the screenshots, we can also see that the whole shadow system has been totally replaced in order to use reald shadows instead of that stupid flat 3D shape hovering above the ground and that never shows correctly over bumpy terrain.

And for information, you can add ambient occlusion as post-processing effect via the ENB module for example, but the result is extremely poor and very heavy on the system.
Programming is my work since 9 years, after 5 years of studies in computer science. Making a little video-game using DirectX and OpenGL was my end of year/final exam programming project. You made some addons. You get the difference ?

You obviously know how to program (going by your statement).  But have you made add ons that use Ambient occlusion, ray tracing, normal mapping, a simulator SDK, a flight model, 3D mesh, converted png files to dds files?
I have also programmed in Microsoft Basic (when I was 15.  I'm 38 now), have made my own games before I turned 18 and now I'm working with LUA for my current projects and just starting C++.
I'm not here to argue with you.  
I'm saying I have worked in this particular field for 2 years and have made a living out of it.  I have completed 2 projects with a 3rd about to be released and 2 more rather large projects on the way sometime this year.
Please, let's keep it a friendly discussion without all the dick measuring.

[Luke Bateson]

CaptainG37, on Jan 24 2011, 01:57 PM, said:

You obviously know how to program (going by your statement).  But have you made add ons that use Ambient occlusion, ray tracing, normal mapping, a simulator SDK, a flight model, 3D mesh, converted png files to dds files?
I have also programmed in Microsoft Basic (when I was 15.  I'm 38 now), have made my own games before I turned 18 and now I'm working with LUA for my current projects and just starting C++.
I'm not here to argue with you.  
I'm saying I have worked in this particular field for 2 years and have made a living out of it.  I have completed 2 projects with a 3rd about to be released and 2 more rather large projects on the way sometime this year.
Please, let's keep it a friendly discussion without all the dick measuring.

May we see these 2 products that have already been released?