5 replies to this topic

[Peter797]

Hey guys!


So I've been using VATSIM for a while now, and I've only been flying local flights in the east coast.  Even during Cross the Pond events, I still flew local.

I saw a few videos however, of people that do fly across the pond, and they seem to have to do position reports on their way over the atlantic.

I have no idea how this works and was wondering if somebody could clarify what it's all about. I'm planning on doing a transatlantic sometime soon, and just want to know what forms or anything like that I need and how to properly execute these position reports.


Thanks in advance!

[Flying_Scotsman]

Oceanic control and North Atlantic tracks

Loads of info out there if you google around.

http://occ.ivao.ca/pilots

Just need to learn how to enter co-ordinates into the FMC and which NATS to use and away you go.  The NATS are read out by the pilots to Shanwick or Gander before they enter the NAT (there is an entry point and exit point). Entry points for East to West from the south west coast of England up to the west coast of scotland.    East west is normally a morning flight, west to east are normally overnight flights.

[Peter797]

Why do I have to enter coordinates into the FMC? I can no longer use waypoints?

[tvieno]

Peter797, on Dec 18 2011, 05:04 PM, said:

Why do I have to enter coordinates into the FMC? I can no longer use waypoints?

Because not all coordinates have a waypoint assigned to that coordinate.

[higgi1fc]

Hey Peter, here is some general info that should help you out with the trans Atlantic stuff.  I'm not sure how well VATSIM simulates it, but this is generally how it works.

-When flying across the "pond", there are very few named waypoints, so you will file and fly mostly lat/long on the oceanic portion.  You will have a 'coast out' point which is generally a named point that will begin the oceanic portion of your journey.  This is also usually where radar services will terminate.  The opposite is true for your 'coast in' point on the other side.

-There's 2 ways you can do it.  You can fly the North Atlantic Tracks (NATs) or your own made up route.  The NATs are the organized track system that attempt to maintain orderly flow of traffic across the north Atlantic.  The actual routes change every day based on weather/winds/etc.  Generally the NATs are open to traffic heading eastbound during the night and westbound traffic during the day.  You can find info on the current NATs at https://www.notams.faa.gov and click the "North Atlantic Track" button under 'Advanced NOTAM Functions'.  This will tell you how the tracks are organized for that day, what flight levels are available, and the times they are open.  You don't HAVE to fly the NATs.  You can file your own route south of them if you'd like.  (for example if you wanted to head eastbound during the day when the NATs are heading west)

-Once you go outside controlled airspace, you will be doing position reporting (either via HF radio or ACARS/CPDLC).  When you're talking on HF, you are not speaking to a controller.  You are speaking to a radio operator who relays messages to/from the actual controllers.  They depend on these position reports to be accurate because the airspace is very busy and there is no radar coverage.  You will call (on VHF) usually around 30min before going oceanic to get your oceanic clearance.  They will read you your cleared route, flight level, mach # to maintain.  It's extremely important to check and make sure you have programmed exactly what you are cleared.  Once oceanic, the way you would make a report is.  "AGENCY, CALLSIGN checks position [CURRENT POSITION PASSING] at [ZULU TIME PASSED], [CURRENT FLIGHT LEVEL].  Estimating [NEXT WAYPOINT] at [ESTIMATED Z TIME YOU WILL HIT THAT POINT], [NEXT WAYPOINT AFTER THAT] next."

i.e. "Shanwick Radio, Delta 123 checks position RESNO at 1235, Flight Level 330.  Estimating 56 North 020 West at 1310, 56 North 030 West Next"

You are required to hit these points within 3 minutes of what you call the estimate as (or you need to let them know otherwise), because that is the only way they can "control" the traffic.



If you'd like to know more, here is an excerpt from the MNPS Airspace Ops Manual that gives you a 'condensed' version of how it works and what all you are supposed to do.  https://docs.google....GYxNjAwNzc4YmFj

And here is the full "Guidance Concerning Air Navigation in and above the North Atlantic MNPS Airspace" document.  Tells you EVERYTHING you need to know.  https://docs.google....2M5Njk3NmIwNTU2

Here's a little "cheat sheet" I found that I like to use.  It is not an official document, but is still pretty cool.  If you cant read it, the full-size doc is here.  https://docs.google....GU2NDY3NjM1NmQ0  




Enjoy!

-Chris

[divemaster08]

As Higgi1fc has stated, due to the large change in the winds in the jetstreams, the "airways" across the North Atlantic, there are no set routes. If there were, aircraft wouldnt be able to benefit with the strong tail winds, and also avoid the strong headwinds (if going the other way!).

So instead of fixed waypoints, there are lat/long coordinates as "waypoints" (as dictated by the North Atlantic Tracks/NATs) to fly across the atlantic.


The main reason for position reports is due to the fact also that there is no Radar coverage. Its easy to fly around the areas that have Radar as they know exactly where you are. When you don't have Radar, you require aircraft to report certain positions to separate you with other traffic at the same level (either crossing or same direction as hopefully not same level and opposite direction!). Procedural controllers (like myself) always need pilots to make sure they report these positions and give us estimates of certain waypoints.

Aircraft entering the NATs/Tracks at the same level have to have I believe 10mins flying time between them and always maintain certain Mach speed while inside the tracks and outside of Radar Control. So in a clearance to enter the Tracks, you will be assigned a level to maintain and a Mach Number.

To make sure aircraft are where they are suppose to be, aircraft make position reports, just to make sure you are where you should be (and also your not asleep!).

Reports therefore require the following,

Your Callsign, You position your checking and time checking (in UTC), your Mach number, your estsimate for your next position (also in UTC) and the waypoint after that.

As stated, its not a controller you pass this information onto, but a radio operator. They then relay information to the controllers at the other end of the Pond to make sure they know where the aircraft are and what time they can expect them.

Edited by divemaster08, 25 December 2011 - 11:38 AM.