137 replies to this topic

[Mumbles]

THBatMan8, on Feb 15 2012, 06:58 AM, said:

Every job has it's pet peeves. There is no such thing as the perfect job. Traveling for a living gets very old, very fast. If you want to have a personal life as well, this is not the job to get into as you will rarely be home. They will put on a false front to you because you are the general public with a interest in aviation, but you have no clue what goes on behind closed doors.

That is not how the real world works. When it comes to commercial aviation, you're going to be borderline homeless and starving for your first 10 to 15 years. The standard payrate for entry level pilots is 20 to 30k a year gross. Money makes the world go around. Not your attitude. The people that make it from the bottom have parents/family with deep pockets. If you want to be a independent person, or you don't have a rich family willing to financially support you, this is not a good career choice.

You need to stop being so bitter. Who the are you to tell him what is good or not good for him? It's his life, he gets to live it the way he wants. If you don't like it then fine, but don't sit here and bash on the career. You do this to everybody that wants to be a pilot, get off your soap box. Everything you ever have to say about it is negative. I guess you forgot you're on FSW full of a bunch of people with a strong interest in aviation many of which want to become real pilots if they aren't already. Maybe try another forum for aviation bashing...  

[THBatMan8]

Mumbles, on Feb 15 2012, 12:44 PM, said:

You need to stop being so bitter. Who the are you to tell him what is good or not good for him? It's his life, he gets to live it the way he wants. If you don't like it then fine, but don't sit here and bash on the career. You do this to everybody that wants to be a pilot, get off your soap box. Everything you ever have to say about it is negative. I guess you forgot you're on FSW full of a bunch of people with a strong interest in aviation many of which want to become real pilots if they aren't already. Maybe try another forum for aviation bashing...  

Im not being bitter. Just telling the truth. If the OP still wants to be a commercial pilot, I'm not going to stop him. I'm just telling him what he's going to face. If I'm so wrong as you point out, I'll wait for some real pilots to correct me. Oh wait, none of them have done so yet. Go figure. When you try it, and fail because you realized you can't live on that salary, I'll be standing by with my "I told you so" line. Also, I am not talking about the instance you become a commercial pilot on a heavy. I'm talking about the time from when you graduate to the time you get to that point. Not everyone who loves to fly will make it to that level.

I'm talking reality here. Not dreaming. I have the same passion for aviation the rest of you guys have, but I also know more about the industry. It's not all peaches and creme like you guys are painting it out to be.

suraj, on Feb 15 2012, 12:06 PM, said:

Did you not read the example I wrote? She was literally at the bottom, and brought her family up. He will get a job in the engineering field and will make lots of money, that is if he uses it correctly as well. I understand the fact that if your parents don't have deep pockets then it is a struggle to make it in this line. I just think if it's really something you want to do, you can make it happen, and then it definitely depends on your attitude. People who have nothing sometimes are happier than those who make millions. That is a fact, and it all comes down to your perspective on life.

I don't know of anyone who is happy making 20k a year, especially when they have almost 100k in debt from student loans. You can have the best work ethic in the world, but it means nothing if you don't make enough money to survive. That is something you need to plan for. If you don't, you will fail every time. That being said, this is also a bad time to look for a job. Not that many airliners are hiring for flight crews, and it's going to be that way for a while.

Edited by THBatMan8, 15 February 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Mumbles]

THBatMan8, on Feb 15 2012, 03:14 PM, said:

Im not being bitter. Just telling the truth. If the OP still wants to be a commercial pilot, I'm not going to stop him. I'm just telling him what he's going to face. If I'm so wrong as you point out, I'll wait for some real pilots to correct me. Oh wait, none of them have done so yet. Go figure. When you try it, and fail because you realized you can't live on that salary, I'll be standing by with my "I told you so" line. Also, I am not talking about the instance you become a commercial pilot on a heavy. I'm talking about the time from when you graduate to the time you get to that point. Not everyone who loves to fly will make it to that level.

Where did I point out that you were wrong? You're right the pay sucks, initially. You're right, it is hard to get into it and make it all the way up to something bigger like a 747. You're right, he will have a lot of debt. But none of that gives you the right to bash it the way you do. You make it out to be the absolute worst career path possible for anybody which is complete crap. Giving him insight is great, but the way in which you do it is wrong.

[THBatMan8]

Mumbles, on Feb 15 2012, 05:00 PM, said:

Where did I point out that you were wrong? You're right the pay sucks, initially. You're right, it is hard to get into it and make it all the way up to something bigger like a 747. You're right, he will have a lot of debt. But none of that gives you the right to bash it the way you do. You make it out to be the absolute worst career path possible for anybody which is complete crap. Giving him insight is great, but the way in which you do it is wrong.

Where do you get the idea I'm bashing aviation? I'm not. I'm correcting the 'dream job' comments. There is no such thing as the perfect job, no matter what the job is.

Loving to fly and flying for a living are 2 different things. Doing it for a living will get old. It's the same concept for driving.

[Mumbles]

THBatMan8, on Feb 15 2012, 04:13 PM, said:

Where do you get the idea I'm bashing aviation? I'm not. I'm correcting the 'dream job' comments. There is no such thing as the perfect job, no matter what the job is.

Loving to fly and flying for a living are 2 different things. Doing it for a living will get old. It's the same concept for driving.

In your opinion, that isn't a fact.

You bash it by acting like it is the worst job on earth and many of your comments, like the one above, are your opinion that you try to pass off as a fact.

[FlyThomsenX]

Oh my. I leave for a few days, and all breaks loose?

First and foremost, thank you for all your replies.

BUT this thread has been led away from my original question, which was about your thoughts on the scheme I had in mind, not whether aviation is a viable career for me. I have read 100's of threads with comments on that subject in the past, I don't need more talk about the Dark Side that commercial flying allegedly is, please.
What I need - or what I ask for - is, as I said, the idea of a plan of education. So thanks to those who stayed on topic!


Now end the bloody flame war, or this thread will be closed and you'll have to invade one of the 999 other flamed threads put there on the forums

Now, since it was brought up; I don't believe the AME study is a cakewalk. I know it's hard work and takes immense concentration from day 1 and not dropping that till the day you stop working. But of course, it is all just a scheme, a sketch, an idea in my head. All I want to do is to get in touch with my dream and work with aircrafts, somehow. If I design them, construct them, take care of them or fly them, it's not too important (of course I'd prefer flying them), it's all a matter of living my dream, and finding some way to do it and balance dream fulfillment with some kind of financial reasoning. No 100k loans to jump into a risky business. I'd much rather get a backup career first, something to fall back on, just in case. The best would be something that supplied me with the much-needed GPA's/scores/grades/w.e.y.c.i., so whatever I do after that, I'll have some sort of commonly accepted measurement of skill.

So without further ado, I'd like to hear some suggestions to what you think I could do instead (to become a pilot! - no anti-aviation comments, ladies and gentlemen...). Let the games begin!

Cheers,

- Tom

PS. To whoever said  asked where I got the $107k from when I started this thread; I got them from the only Danish flight school that publicly showed total prices for training on their web pages. I know for a fact (from correspondence) that this price is actually low for Denmark - it can be up to $115k for an ATPL(A) and slightly less for a CPL(H).

Edited by FlyThomsenX, 15 February 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[FlyThomsenX]

Sorry if I confused you people with the first post:

Quote

Since I started walking, I've had an urge to be an airline captain. Not necessarily flying the biggest jets around, I really prefer regional or at least medium-distance flights, or helicopters.

With "airline captain", I meant flying commercially as PIC, this the clarification following the previous statement.

Let's make it clear, once and for all: I will fly almost anything for a living, from an A380 around the world to outback bush flying in an R22, but I generally prefer a max of, say, an A321, at least I'm not going to aim higher for the time being.

[THBatMan8]

Mumbles, on Feb 15 2012, 06:04 PM, said:

In your opinion, that isn't a fact.

You bash it by acting like it is the worst job on earth and many of your comments, like the one above, are your opinion that you try to pass off as a fact.

Because it is a fact. You don't have the exposure to know otherwise and I'm not going to waste any more time elaborating. EVERY JOB OUT THERE HAS ITS PET PEEVES. I'm not just talking about flying a airplane either. Every job =/= every flying job. It means EVERY JOB, whether you're flying a 747 or flipping burgers at McDonalds you're going to find something to complain about everywhere you work at. It doesn't matter if you like what you're doing.

There is no such thing as the perfect job. Get that through your head because it's not worth my time to spell it out for you. It's just like wasting your time trying to find your stereotypical soul-mate that doesn't exist. You'll be 50 and still single.

Edited by THBatMan8, 15 February 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[THBatMan8]

FlyThomsenX, on Feb 15 2012, 06:57 PM, said:

BUT this thread has been led away from my original question, which was about your thoughts on the scheme I had in mind, not whether aviation is a viable career for me. I have read 100's of threads with comments on that subject in the past, I don't need more talk about the Dark Side that commercial flying allegedly is, please.
What I need - or what I ask for - is, as I said, the idea of a plan of education. So thanks to those who stayed on topic!
Now end the bloody flame war, or this thread will be closed and you'll have to invade one of the 999 other flamed threads put there on the forums

If people would learn to leave my posts alone, this flame war wouldn't have happened. But, too many people just assume I'm a 16-year-old blowing smoke out of my and doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm just as irritated as you are.

Edited by THBatMan8, 15 February 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[Mumbles]

Well...


He asked us to stop. Get that through your head..

FlyThomsenX, on Feb 15 2012, 05:57 PM, said:

Now end the bloody flame war, or this thread will be closed and you'll have to invade one of the 999 other flamed threads put there on the forums

As for your question, I'd recommend looking into something outside aviation just in case. For me it's law enforcement, but it could be anything. What do you like other than aviation or what might interest you? I actually have never been real into law enforcement, but I just decided one day that would be a neat field to work in if aviation falls through.

[LA_PHX]

THBatMan8, on Feb 15 2012, 05:13 PM, said:

Where do you get the idea I'm bashing aviation? I'm not. I'm correcting the 'dream job' comments. There is no such thing as the perfect job, no matter what the job is.

Loving to fly and flying for a living are 2 different things. Doing it for a living will get old. It's the same concept for driving.

DREAM KILLER!!!!!!!!



Sorry, I couldn't help myself and just make fun of this entire situation.  We all knew it was headed here.

Edited by LA_PHX, 16 February 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Cortez]

Ever seen Up In the Air?

[Peter797]

Yeah Up in the Air is a great movie.

[THBatMan8]

Mumbles, on Feb 15 2012, 09:57 PM, said:

Well...


He asked us to stop. Get that through your head..

I'm not mad.

[FlyThomsenX]

Mumbles, on Feb 16 2012, 05:57 AM, said:

[...]As for your question, I'd recommend looking into something outside aviation just in case. For me it's law enforcement, but it could be anything. What do you like other than aviation or what might interest you? I actually have never been real into law enforcement, but I just decided one day that would be a neat field to work in if aviation falls through.

Yes, I know. I'm thinking of studying architecture - it's another hobby of mine, and something we all know for a fact will always be there  (there will always be houses to build, as long as the human race exists) - but flying is something I've wanted to do my whole life, literally.

Decisions, decisions.

- Tom

[George Bush]

In my extremely short almost 20 year old life I can give you my honest 2 cents. That every job you will ever do in your life will be a grating pain in the backside all your days, even when you're not working the proccess of looking for a job is just as frustrating and grevious as the problems you encounter as you work. And whether you work with your hands or work with your brain in all walks of life every job you will becomes a niggling chore that maks you wonder if you're wasting you're time. These are the facts of life, get used to it.

I'm studying at uni whilst doing a part time job whilst living at home to save money, so I can fund my PPL. My parents have given me no financial support and since I live in a council house the chances of me taking out a loan to do an intergrated (intensive) pilot course and secure it against a UK property (which seems to be a popular choice with intergrated students i know) is out of the question. So, much to everyones dismay when they find out how much ££ I'm burning in pursut of my dream, I procceed anyway in that direction and plan to go modular. All of these oppurtunities are surprisingly easy to achieve it's a matter of if you are willing to work for,during and after these oppurtunities to make stuff happen that counts. I say go for it, you're going to get just as frustrated doing a desk job all your life anyway.

Edited by George Bush, 21 February 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[89-LX]

Just a few things......

In the summer where our base was extremely understaffed, I worked 20 days. The last 5 months, I only worked 9-10 days a month. I love my job, but I hate a lot of the politics and the pay. Now with regards to pay, I consider my "years" March to March for the purpose of thats when my pay goes up. On year "1" pay, I made approximately $26,000 gross. For the next year, March '12 - March '13, I will gross approx. $40,000. Its a livable wage, but I think it deserve to be more.

[THBatMan8]

89-LX, on Feb 21 2012, 07:50 PM, said:

Just a few things......

In the summer where our base was extremely understaffed, I worked 20 days. The last 5 months, I only worked 9-10 days a month. I love my job, but I hate a lot of the politics and the pay. Now with regards to pay, I consider my "years" March to March for the purpose of thats when my pay goes up. On year "1" pay, I made approximately $26,000 gross. For the next year, March '12 - March '13, I will gross approx. $40,000. Its a livable wage, but I think it deserve to be more.

If you cant live off 40K, there's some problems there.

How long did it take you to get to that point/paygrade?

[Cactus]

Go to barber college and become a barber instead. It's recession proof. People always need haircuts.

[89-LX]

THBatMan8, on Feb 21 2012, 10:15 PM, said:

If you cant live off 40K, there's some problems there.

How long did it take you to get to that point/paygrade?

1 year, thats it. Year 2 pay. And we're in contract negotiations to get more. And even though $40k is decent, its still a rough wage to live on.

Cactus, on Feb 22 2012, 07:02 AM, said:

Go to barber college and become a barber instead. It's recession proof. People always need haircuts.

Unless people cut their own hair at home?