10 replies to this topic

[Independence76]

http://news.sky.com/...th-295-on-board

[shamupilot]

I just saw this...tragic, very tragic. Though looking through flightaware's data it looks like MH 17 has always been routed around Crimean airspace. However, it seems like this time It went right through it...

http://flightaware.c...1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

Any thoughts?

[Independence76]

shamupilot, on 17 July 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Though looking through flightaware's data it looks like MH 17 has always been routed around Crimean airspace. However, it seems like this time It went right through it...

The NOTAM report stated the airway they were on may be of some threat to separatists on the ground, but it only went up to 32,000ft. for flights.

MH17 was at 33,000ft. - above the ceiling of this warning with a good 1,000ft. of separation.

Edited by Independence76, 17 July 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[SwitchFX]

Considering the money flowed in from Moscow, Russia needs to make a statement. The news in Ukraine is troubling. The future reeks of South Ossetia. Ukraine will become a hotbed. Meanwhile in Israel, and please excuse my language, the politicans have raging boners over the thought of a Palestinian child with its head cut off and on a spear, with a few IDF pissing on the body. In addition, the Palestinians have dreams of hiring out Christian mercenaries and force feeding the Jewish in the captured IDF pork.

Idiots.

[SwitchFX]

John, Russian missile technology tends to be a notch above American missile technology. The newer S class missiles hit an altitude of 19 miles with relative ease. I recall reading a post somewhere that the S-400 in tests has been capable of hitting 100-105,000 ft. in altitude. Likely a one time event based on wind and weather. The best Patriot has a sweet spot much lower than that.

Edited by SwitchFX, 18 July 2014 - 12:27 AM.

[Independence76]

SwitchFX, on 18 July 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

John, Russian missile technology tends to be a notch above American missile technology. The newer S class missiles hit an altitude of 19 miles with relative ease. I recall reading a post somewhere that the S-400 in tests has been capable of hitting 100-105,000 ft. in altitude. Likely a one time event based on wind and weather. The best Patriot has a sweet spot much lower than that.

The capabilities of the altitude range of the missiles is not in question. The equipment in the region can easily reach those altitudes. The question is why FL320 was given as the limit when it was beyond FL410.

Also, it's been clearly stated that the equipment in the region is far from the newest advancements in missile technology.

[Max.]

Horrible news, with many Ukrainian military flights being shot down by rebels it can only be assumed MH17 was mistaken for a military flight.

[shamupilot]

Independence76, on 18 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

The capabilities of the altitude range of the missiles is not in question. The equipment in the region can easily reach those altitudes. The question is why FL320 was given as the limit when it was beyond FL410.

Also, it's been clearly stated that the equipment in the region is far from the newest advancements in missile technology.

I'd like to know that as well. I'm assuming the pilots must have had faulty information from the briefing? Why did all previous flights route around the airspace?

Max., on 18 July 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

Horrible news, with many Ukrainian military flights being shot down by rebels it can only be assumed MH17 was mistaken for a military flight.

Indeed, RIP all 295 souls

[SwitchFX]

Independence76, on 18 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

The capabilities of the altitude range of the missiles is not in question. The equipment in the region can easily reach those altitudes. The question is why FL320 was given as the limit when it was beyond FL410.

Also, it's been clearly stated that the equipment in the region is far from the newest advancements in missile technology.

Even if, and don't hold your breath on that, it's still going to outrank other systems. Even the oldest member of the S300 family line outclasses a new Patriot missile. The bolded contradicts the first sentence you composed. If the ceiling is FL410, it's not going to always travel at that altitude. I don't recall FL410 being the recommended cruise altitude for the 777 at any time. If anything it's been FL300-306.

Edited by SwitchFX, 18 July 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Independence76]

SwitchFX, on 18 July 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

The bolded contradicts the first sentence you composed. If the ceiling is FL410, it's not going to always travel at that altitude. I don't recall FL410 being the recommended cruise altitude for the 777 at any time. If anything it's been FL300-306.

It's a question of general flight safety of the area, not what the 777 was designed for in terms of recommended altitudes. I'm quite surprised you're trying to argue the details on the missile systems used when everything's been pretty much said and done.

- The NOTAM warning ceiling was set at 32,000ft. The plane was traveling at 33,000ft.
- The equipment involved (regardless of the specific model, but we're very positive it was a Buk system) had the ability to penetrate the 32,000ft. ceiling given on the NOTAM.
- There's pictorial evidence online of the Buk systems being used by regional separatists in areas where the projected launch source would have been.
- The US government already has all of this information (from sensory missile tracking via military satellites) and is processing it to determine who pushed the button.

[Max.]

BBC reported that some investigators managed to get to part of a crash site before being effectively frightening off again as a possibly drunken rebel fired shots into the air.

This process could likely go on for the years.