58 replies to this topic

[SwitchFX]

MonarchA321IAE, on May 30 2008, 01:26 AM, said:

Dre! << What is your problem, I see you've got in a over quite a few of my comments on these forums and even Commenting on my english in one topic. Seems like you've got some problem, You cant handle the funnier side of things, You always have to be serious and cant relate to a laff or joke. Brighten up and stop being such a stuck up little wipe.

If you have a problem, take it up via PM. Don't need to make your problems with another member public.

[Jetset]

MonarchA321IAE, on May 30 2008, 09:26 AM, said:

Dre! << What is your problem, I see you've got in a over quite a few of my comments on these forums and even Commenting on my english in one topic. Seems like you've got some problem, You cant handle the funnier side of things, You always have to be serious and cant relate to a laff or joke. Brighten up and stop being such a stuck up little wipe.

Let's analyse what dre said shall we..

Quote

dre! Posted May 27 2008, 10:53 AM
That was not a "lmao" moment I'm afraid. Piracy isn't funny, mate.

dre appears to be of the opinion that piracy isn't funny. (I tend to agree)

Quite a non threatening /innocent reply really. He even stuck a 'mate' on the end.
Do you think that it warranted the reply you gave him..? I don't.

Personal attacks on other members are not tolerated on this forum!!
You have been warned

Steve

[Mul.]

Alaska MD-83, on Jun 14 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

May I ask how Grammar Nazi's are related to Pirating lines of code???

It doesn't.

Keep on topic, I don't want to hear any more of this.

[JAI777W]

MonarchA321IAE, on Apr 25 2008, 08:09 AM, said:

What Realy me off is the fact these idiots who pirate software, then have the absolute cheek to go and ask for technical support and get all the updates which people like my self have paid for an they get for free. Im so glad to hear Payware companys are starting new ways to block pirates from downloading there software, for example, i recently installed the PSS 757 update 1.3, You have to contact the support desk which in my opion is brilliant because someone with a pirated version cannot update there product.

Also if piracy carry's on the way its going We may well start loosing some very good payware companys.

Pirates are costing us genunine customers twice as much, we pay the price because the idiots who pirate software, the company looses revinue, they charge more for there products in the future, Then they will become fed up of piracy that they won't bother creating anymore products.

Anyone who brags about piracy on the web is some sort of idiot, whats there to brag about, the fact that you stole someones software, While many genuine people have paid for it.

Mike

But still, when a certain company uses an almost 100% pirateproof system, like Ariane, they get flamed all over the place, because of this (somewhat diffucult) activation system. You can't have both. Even Microsoft gets pirated, you can't expect a 2 man internet company to come up with a pirateproof system that is also customer friendly. It is undo-able.

Same applies to Wilco. They are known for their ticket support system, and not in a good way. You can't blame them for doing it like so. Having a support forum, means that you will have a solid db of posts and customers helping out eachother, making it easier and faster to overcome problems. On the flipside : Everybody can acces such a forum, so developers (like Ariane and Wilco) shut it down.

I agree with you on the support part though. I think it's pretty lousy to ask for support, for a product you didn't pay for. If and when you decide to pirate, deal with your own problems.

Last but not least :

Any person, on this forum, or in this topic saying that he or she never pirated is a BIG, FAT, LIER! Perhaps not in the FS department, but what about movies? Or music? Or, when you look at all these kids, editings screenshots with Photoshop?

Perhaps a different way of looking at things : I bought the PMDG 737, 4 (FOUR!!) times in the past 5 years, cause I keep loosing the install file, or because I had at least 8 different email adresses, 2 laptops and 3 computers in the past couple of years, so I didn't remember which one I used to activate it, or on which backup drive it was located. When I decided to give the 737 a spin the other day and couldn't find it, did I buy it the 5th time? Nope, I'm not a fool. I downloaded it.

Piracy, or let's call it : making software available thru the internet makes things in this particular example easier. When I lost my Flight1 Ground Enviroment Pro key, I contacted Flight1 and got a reply (in the weekend!!!) withing a couple of hours. So it was sorted out before I could blink my eye. But when I contacted PMDG, I waited 4 days for a reply and the reply was lousy.

As long as you buy your stuff, I don't see downloading something again as a backup as a bad thing.

Ps. Since we have some hardware guys here, let's take it up a notch :

How about overclocking? You didn't pay for 3.0Ghz CPU, no you paid for a 2.5Ghz processor. How is that for piracy (as in getting your hands on something you really want, but couldn't afford, or weren't willing to pay for?). Perhaps it is not illegal by law, but it is as morally incorrect as downloading software, cause you couldn't afford it, or weren't willing to pay for it. If you want a faster CPU, shouldn't you buy one and 'support' the manufacturor?

This is not a statement, it is a question.

Edited by JAI777W, 17 June 2008 - 06:16 AM.

[Max.]

JAI777W, on Jun 17 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

Ps. Since we have some hardware guys here, let's take it up a notch :

How about overclocking? You didn't pay for 3.0Ghz CPU, no you paid for a 2.5Ghz processor. How is that for piracy (as in getting your hands on something you really want, but couldn't afford, or weren't willing to pay for?). Perhaps it is not illegal by law, but it is as morally incorrect as downloading software, cause you couldn't afford it, or weren't willing to pay for it. If you want a faster CPU, shouldn't you buy one and 'support' the manufacturor?

This is not a statement, it is a question.

Sorry no.

[_NW_]

Yeah that's no where near the same..   you are wanting to get more performance out of something you already own..   same thing as buying a Mustang and throwing a supercharger on it..  you bought your mustang..  it's YOURS..  and you want more performance out of it.

[CaptainTim]

NWilkinson, on Jun 17 2008, 02:05 PM, said:

Yeah that's no where near the same..   you are wanting to get more performance out of something you already own..   same thing as buying a Mustang and throwing a supercharger on it..  you bought your mustang..  it's YOURS..  and you want more performance out of it.

so why not get the next engine size or model up?

[JAI777W]

NWilkinson, on Jun 17 2008, 06:05 AM, said:

Yeah that's no where near the same..   you are wanting to get more performance out of something you already own..   same thing as buying a Mustang and throwing a supercharger on it..  you bought your mustang..  it's YOURS..  and you want more performance out of it.

No, that's something different. That would be like buying a whole new pc and then adding more RAM to it, later on to make the overal performance go up. We're talking about integrity here and I don't want to go too deep into the moral-thing, but you could say that when you buy a 2.5Ghz processor, knowing that there's a 3.0 (more expensive) CPU, but opting not to pay for this and overclocking it yourself, equals 'stealing' income/revenue from the company who develops these CPU's. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is wrong (who am I to?), merely stating that everybody, in it's own way is ripping of companies.

lpf20011, on Jun 17 2008, 06:20 AM, said:

so why not get the next engine size or model up?

Indeed. My point exactly.

[CaptainTim]

JAI777W, on Jun 17 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

But still, when a certain company uses an almost 100% pirateproof system, like Ariane, they get flamed all over the place, because of this (somewhat diffucult) activation system. You can't have both. Even Microsoft gets pirated, you can't expect a 2 man internet company to come up with a pirateproof system that is also customer friendly. It is undo-able.

I agree but don't am afraid. I've never had issues with Flight 1, FS2Crew, Simmarket or PMDG in regards to validating my purchases.

Its almost like the classic PMDG anti-piracy.

post 1: "please hlp my pmdg won't work, its rubbish"
post 2: "whats the problem exactly?"
post 1: "screens go black"
post 2: "you have activation issues...either cause its a pirate or genuine validation probs which are fixed with reinstall or contacting pmdg tech support"
and then thats the last we here of it...

Similar to what Level-D have got going on. For any technical support you have to register on their forums using a file that you get from the flight 1 installer process. The amount of people who post in forums askin for help with the Level-D, only to be greeted by DShutt asking them to register on the official level-d forums. But wait, its so easy to do why didn't they do that in the 1st place? And then funnily enough that question isnt asked but the original poster hasn't got a valid copy.

[_NW_]

lpf20011, on Jun 17 2008, 08:20 AM, said:

so why not get the next engine size or model up?

Because Ford doesn't make a Supercharged V6..  or maybe becuase the owner owns the SVT which is already supercharged  but wants more power..  Ford doesn't make any model higher than the Mustang SVT, specialty shops do..  but not Ford..  so there is no option from the factory...

Or maybe you rather talk in terms with Subaru..  there is no line higher than the STi..   but that's limited at 300 hp..  say someone wants more power..   they can't get it from Subaru, they don't make it..  so you go after-market..  that's the key word..  AFTER MARKET...

JAI777W, on Jun 17 2008, 09:16 AM, said:

No, that's something different. That would be like buying a whole new pc and then adding more RAM to it, later on to make the overal performance go up. We're talking about integrity here and I don't want to go too deep into the moral-thing, but you could say that when you buy a 2.5Ghz processor, knowing that there's a 3.0 (more expensive) CPU, but opting not to pay for this and overclocking it yourself, equals 'stealing' income/revenue from the company who develops these CPU's. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is wrong (who am I to?), merely stating that everybody, in it's own way is ripping of companies.

No it's not..  it's the same thing.  You are tuning something YOU ALREADY OWN....   you're not stealing from anyone.. becuase if you screw it up you'll blow your processor..  and anything that involves tuning beyond factory settings doesn't mean it's "piracy", it's a completely different thing...   I recommend you go on Google and search for the definition of piracy, you are obviously confused on what it means.

[JAI777W]

NWilkinson, on Jun 17 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

lpf20011, on Jun 17 2008, 08:20 AM, said:

so why not get the next engine size or model up?

Because Ford doesn't make a Supercharged V6..  or maybe becuase the owner owns the SVT which is already supercharged  but wants more power..  Ford doesn't make any model higher than the Mustang SVT, specialty shops do..  but not Ford..  so there is no option from the factory...

Or maybe you rather talk in terms with Subaru..  there is no line higher than the STi..   but that's limited at 300 hp..  say someone wants more power..   they can't get it from Subaru, they don't make it..  so you go after-market..  that's the key word..  AFTER MARKET...

Dude, we're not talking about cars here, and we're also not talking about buying something that has no better version. The example was a processor, of which a faster version IS available. We're not talking about 'supercharged' Fords, tuneshops and Subaru´s. Your comparison is way of.

A. We're talking about a computerpart we tune ourselves (or free), not a car we let a professional tune for us (for payment).
B. We're talking about a product of which a faster, better version IS available at a higher price
C. We're talking about paying a lower price for a (let's say) 2.5GHZ and WITHOUT paying more money, or the difference between the 2.5 and 3.0 get the performance of a 3.0.
D. We're not talking about an AFTERMARKET, which clearly means (an extra amount of) money is being traded for goods or a service. We're talking about buying something at a lower cost, knowing there's a better, but more expensive version and opting NOT to shell out this extra cash, but to do it yourself and whether or not this is a 'correct' thing.

By the way, AFTERMARKET as you call it, isn't always a good thing, whether or not both parties benifit (one gets money, the other gets a better performance/enhanced product etc). I can bring my Xbox360 to this 'AFTERMARKET' dude and for 30 euro's have it 'aftermarketed' so I will be able to play not-so-legal-versions of games.

You are talking about Fords, of which no better version is available and enhancing the performance of this particular car by PAYING money to a shop to tune the engine or what not.

NWilkinson, on Jun 17 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

No it's not..  it's the same thing.  You are tuning something YOU ALREADY OWN....   you're not stealing from anyone.. becuase if you screw it up you'll blow your processor..  and anything that involves tuning beyond factory settings doesn't mean it's "piracy", it's a completely different thing...   I recommend you go on Google and search for the definition of piracy, you are obviously confused on what it means.

The Question is : Why would you be tuning something you allready own, since there's allready an out of the box, ready to go version available? I'll tell you why : Cause you think it's cheaper, cause you think the manufacturer charges too much, so instead of buying a cheaper, but evenly fast processor from a rival manufacturer (let's say AMD), you buy the cheaper one, and tune it yourself. Cause we want to have the best, the fastest, the best looking etc, for the least amount of money. And that is exaclty why there will always be (software) piracy....

ps. I wasn´t saying overclocking was piracy, so there is no need for me to look it up. That´s why i put my words between --->'<----. If you would have read correctly in my last 2 posts, I am talking about the moral/integrity issue here and how we all 'bend' the rules, some to a higher extend than others.

Edited by JAI777W, 17 June 2008 - 01:35 PM.

[VFR_Pierre]

Overclocking is not piracy. After you bought your CPU, it's yours. You paid for it. You have it. You can do anything you want to it. You are taking risks to damage your CPU, if it doesn't work out, and you get caught, you have to pay for a new one. Why do you think that mobos allow easy overclocking, CPUs do also, and aftermarket heatsinks exist? I would think that it's to overclock, right? After you own things, you can do whatever you want to them. Usually with CPUs, you overclock it faster than the fastest similar CPU in that range. Maybe the fastest CPU the company makes doesn't overclock to the same speeds, so you buy a cheaper one to get more performance and just so happen to save money also. Ever thought of that?

[Alaska_MD-83]

In my mind that is much more liking modifying the software then having a version that many people have. You take a risk.

Piracy is once again in my mind, something that can be put into a computer and copied. Weather it be Micro$oft Office, or a DVD video, it doesn't matter.

The point of this whole tread is to get across the point that if you have pirated softwware then you cannot ask for help here! Don't ask for help in pirating a piece of software and don't brag about being a pirate.
This tread is not about what is considered being piracy or not.


Just my 2 cents

[SergeBMW]

Havent read the last post but piracy is inevitable, for all those who live in South American Countries and other countries worldwide other than the US or possibly Germany/England (not sure) You know, you pass by on the streets and you see teenagers selling pirated copies of EVERYTHING, I mean porn, full movies, musik albums, games, especially games, I don't want to get banned here but this is just the truth, when we go to Argentina or Ecuador to visit family, we always walk around and you see at least 7 sellers in just 2 blocks, you see cops buying them, it is just overgrown so much that people are starting to forget all of the problems and just go with it. I certanly always buy from them when im over there, you get stuff for $1, every kind of CD/DVD/Games for $1, my family buys and you cant imagine the poeple that buy it over there that live there. In todays society, it will never be ended, due to the lack of care and punishment in ALOT of countries. , here in the US youd be arrested before even finishing laying everything out. This is just the way it is. Software developers can make things harder to crack, there are ways, some of us know the trouble, im not pointing anyone out and PLEASE don't ban me for this, im just saying, not convincing anything other than the developers should make harder ways to crack software. May take more time. In our world, this is sadly the truth.

[Buziel-411_RED]

I think the companies are overpricing it. Yes, the PMDG 747 has a FMC, very detailed, fully functional avianocs/hydralics/fuel system, ect, but $75 in the US is just to much for a simulated plane. Thats more than twice the cost of Fs2004. If these companies made there products like 6 dollars, I assure you atleast half of pirates would buy it. Having to spend $100 dollars (not including the game) for one flight, the aircraft, water upgrdes. airprto scenery, sky, ect, is crazy. Then you need tob uy more scenery, or a new plane, for the next flight. Its just crazy

[Mul.]

I'm sure PMDG make a fair profit on each product but regardless, they've got to pay off the heavy promotional, design, development costs somehow. There's no denying that a lot of effort goes into FS addons like the PMDG 744 for example. This kind of effort requires specialist designers. This is all time consuming and demanding. Time is money. They're a business.

[GOZR]

Ok Guys Look at this.. This is in relation of FSX ( and addons ) and Lockon.

Here some SIM-MOD images from "GrandSurf " ...  found in www.sim-mod.com/forum in the "LO RELOAD airbase"
I paint my own textures while some other take M$ textures which i really think it's not recommended and quite "scandalous" actually There is some different kind of pirates, those that don't pay but there are those that take someone else work and place their own name on it..
This original textures are from X-Graphics

sample:



Here:

This is a less than 2 minutes work to place it into My modified Lockon using the same methode.. here.


Interesting isn't it ?..

I'm on my way to develop products now and taking other persons work and place different names is innaceptable..

[GOZR]

So what is the best way to deal with this kind of problem ?

[Ainsleh]

GOZR, on Aug 2 2008, 08:57 PM, said:

So what is the best way to deal with this kind of problem ?

Sensible pricing, adequate piracy protection, aslong as it does not hinder your paying customers experience.

Benefits obtained by purchasing the item.

Most FS addons for example can be pirated and get the exact same copy/features of the paid model, so why pay?

An addon priced at $75 is more attractive to pirate than a $10 addon.

Developers and consumers alike also need to understand a pirates motives, they do not nessecarily want to "steal" your product, and in a good portion of cases they have no intention of purchasing it.

If somebody goes looking for a pirated copy of, for example the PMDG 744, because they believe it is overpriced, but cannot find it. This does not make that same person automatically buy the addon, they may just simply leave it.

Its all about understanding between the consumers and the developers.

My two cents,
Ains.