10 replies to this topic

[lootcorp]

Having a problem trying to manually start the engines on the stock 737 (trying to add a bit more realism)

I start the APU up, start the fuel pumps, and then flip the Engine 1 cutoff lever (the one under the throttle) - the engine spins up. I do the same for Engine 2, it spins up. However, I get a pesistent "Engine start valve open" warning on my flight display. I cannot find any key command or control in the cockpit to correct this! When I do CTRL-E to start, I see the engine valve message, but it disappears after engine spin-up.

There must be a step I am missing - anyone else have this issue? Or can anyone post a checklist to manually start the stock 737 engines without that warning? Or should I just go buy PMDG aircraft?

Thanks!

[AA174_hvy]

Yeah, I have had this problem before...honestly as I've seen it many times, I do believe this is a bug in the program...what i do is this...ill start either engine 1 or 2 whichever i feel like or whichever leg it is (add more realism by alternating starts).  after the first engine is online, then push CTRL+E to auto start the 2nd engine.  at the end of the 2nd engine start, the starter valve annunciator will turn off.

[Gypsy Baron]

AA174_hvy, on Jun 11 2007, 03:55 PM, said:

Yeah, I have had this problem before...honestly as I've seen it many times, I do believe this is a bug in the program...what i do is this...ill start either engine 1 or 2 whichever i feel like or whichever leg it is (add more realism by alternating starts).  after the first engine is online, then push CTRL+E to auto start the 2nd engine.  at the end of the 2nd engine start, the starter valve annunciator will turn off.

The problem is that the XML code for engine starting is not correct for the defaulr 737-800. As I recall, the
code for starting using the switches on the ECU use the "K:TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH" event.

This apparently does not reset after engine runup. thus keeping the  "Fuel Valve" light on.
( the MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH remains ON for each engine)

I added K:TOGGLE_STARTER1 and K:TOGGLE_STARTER2 events  to the "overhead_popup"
"Engine Start 1 GRD-FLT" and "Engine Start 2 GRD-FLT"  sections to initiate engine start.
I also  added  "starter reset" code to my installation.
The starter reset code issues another K:TOGGLE_STARTER1 or 2 event once the engine spools up.
This resets the fuel value annunciators.

The original code for the "Engine Start 1 GRD-FLT" "Engine Start 2 GRD-FLT" and "Engine Start"
appears to be placebo code. It doesn't do anything except allow the switches to "move".

The starters still do not function the way I think they should, using the "Engine Start" switch, but I am
able to start each engine independantly andf not have to resort to CTL+E.

   Paul

Edited by Gypsy Baron, 11 June 2007 - 11:55 PM.

[trekalized]

Paul, if it's not too much, could you paste the sections as they appear? I'm just a little confused as to exactly which entries should go where. Those starter valves open annoy the heck out of me.

Edited by trekalized, 12 June 2007 - 07:58 AM.

[lootcorp]

Glad to hear I am not the only one experiencing this - it has been driving me batty!!

Gypsy - sounds like you know the behind-the-scenes explanation for what's going on...can you post some detail or code on the K:TOGGLE_STARTER1 and STARTER2 events you created? I am no stranger to coding or tweaking, but just started using FSX and am not familiar with the syntax or methods...any help you could provide would be good.

Just to make sure I understand - you basically re-coded the "Engine GRD/FLT" toggles on the overhead - the code for those switches by default doesn't do anything useful except animate the toggling of the switch, so you made them into custom engine start switches that reset the engine starters after spinup, right? Nice work...

Yes, if you could post some code blocks, esp. the starter reset code you created, that should help out many simmers out there!

Thanks,

Loot

[Gypsy Baron]

trekalized, on Jun 12 2007, 07:57 AM, said:

Paul, if it's not too much, could you paste the sections as they appear? I'm just a little confused as to exactly which entries should go where. Those starter valves open annoy the heck out of me.

lootcorp, on Jun 12 2007, 10:40 AM, said:

Glad to hear I am not the only one experiencing this - it has been driving me batty!!
-SNIP-
Yes, if you could post some code blocks, esp. the starter reset code you created, that should help out many simmers out there!

Thanks,

Loot

trekalized and loot...

Check your messages in this forum.

   paul

Edited by Gypsy Baron, 12 June 2007 - 01:00 PM.

[Adam.]

i switch to VC and flip the 2 engine switches back to gnd

[IAmMrTea08]

so what is the exact process to get the engine started?

[Cras]

Assuming that everything is off, aside from the Avionics switch which is not on the VC of the FSX 738.

Turn on main battery.
Verify battery is on.
Start up APU.
Verify it is putting out power.
Make sure the cutoff switch on the throttle is up in the IDLE position.
Press CTRL+F4 to turn on fuel flow.
Switch left engine ignition.
Verify N1 and N2 speed increase.
Switch right engine ignition.
Verify N1 and N2 speed increase.
With both engines up and running at idle throttle, close both start valves.
Turn on both the left and right BAT GEN.

Now your B738 is ready to go.

[Goat Boy©]

Cras, on Jan 13 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

Assuming that everything is off, aside from the Avionics switch which is not on the VC of the FSX 738.

Turn on main battery.
Verify battery is on.
Start up APU.
Verify it is putting out power.
Make sure the cutoff switch on the throttle is up in the IDLE position.
Press CTRL+F4 to turn on fuel flow.
Switch left engine ignition.
Verify N1 and N2 speed increase.
Switch right engine ignition.
Verify N1 and N2 speed increase.
With both engines up and running at idle throttle, close both start valves.
Turn on both the left and right BAT GEN.

Now your B738 is ready to go.

In the real world the start valve is opened, and then the engine is spun up to 18%+ N1, to prevent a hot start.  After 18% N1, fuel is added, and at 50% N2 the start valve should close.

FSX C-list would look something like this.

Turn on battery.
Start the APU.
Turn on the fuel pumps.

Switch #2 engine start switch to GND. (Not certain it is possible in the default FSX sim)
@ 18% N1, lift #2 fuel cutoff switch.
Verify start valve closes @ 50% N1.  (Again, not certain it is possible with this model)

Repeat for #1.

Shut down the APU.


It's a lot more complicated than that though.  In the real world all the electrical buses need to be powered, window heat, hydraulics, pressurization panel, AC packs, etc, need to be turned on.

I forget if there are AC packs modeled on default FSX, but they need to be shut down for engine start as well.  The pneumatic system requires a minimum duct pressure to start the engines, and the packs draw a heavy load.

[fly456]

It would be great to have the code posted please.  It's really annoying not being able to start engines manually and properly and I don't quite get how to do it from this thread.  Does anyone have a fix?