18 replies to this topic

[CPT_Joske]

I fly Virtual Cockpit all the time for a more realistic flight. I have set up my X52 controller to include most autopilot controls, reverse thrust, spoilers etc. The only problem i get is with some of the autopilot controls.

For example, before i depart my gate in the 737 i always set my max speed to arround 240kts and my max altitude to that given by ATC.  I manually take off and manually select the auto throttle, speed and alititude hold buttons on the cockpit using the mouse within several minutes after takeoff. This works fine, the speed increases to 240 and remains there and the plane carries on climbing to my max altitude i set.

Problem starts with my X52 controller........

For example, before i depart my gate in the 737 i always set my max speed to arround 240kts and my max altitude to that given by ATC.  I manually take off and then i used the assigned buttons on the x52 controller for auto throttle, speed and alititude hold.  What happens now is, whatever speed im travelling at, at that moment  i will be locked on at my current speed, so if im at 200kts and i have set the speed hold to 240kts, it'll just reassign it to 200kts or whatever speed im at at the time instead of carrying on increasing speed to 240kts. Same applies to alt hold. If i've set alt hold to say 10000 before takeoff then during the climb i activate alt hold using the x52 assigned button, it'll just stop at the alt im currently flying at and reassign the alt hold from 10000 to current altitude.

What am i doing wrong?

[CPT_Joske]

Ok i've sorted my speed hold. I had to assigning it to MACH HOLD instead of SPEED HOLD. ALTITUDE problem is still there. I have also discovered two Altitude Holds in the controller setup within FSX. I've tried both ALTITUDE HOLDS one doesn't do anything at all, the other creates my problem. However clicking the switch works as it should. I presume its a BUG.


Also what is..........

Altitude Bug and Speed Bug? These can be assigned keys etc within FSX.

[CPT_Joske]

Well been messing and now the speed hold doesn't work. It won't change the airspeed on the flight deck but it sets the speed to current speed. Hence the problem has not been solved just looked as though it did.

[Tree Trimmer]

CPT_Joske, on Jan 10 2008, 10:23 AM, said:

I fly Virtual Cockpit all the time for a more realistic flight. I have set up my X52 controller to include most autopilot controls, reverse thrust, spoilers etc. The only problem i get is with some of the autopilot controls.

For example, before i depart my gate in the 737 i always set my max speed to arround 240kts and my max altitude to that given by ATC.  I manually take off and manually select the auto throttle, speed and alititude hold buttons on the cockpit using the mouse within several minutes after takeoff. This works fine, the speed increases to 240 and remains there and the plane carries on climbing to my max altitude i set.

Problem starts with my X52 controller........

For example, before i depart my gate in the 737 i always set my max speed to arround 240kts and my max altitude to that given by ATC.  I manually take off and then i used the assigned buttons on the x52 controller for auto throttle, speed and alititude hold.  What happens now is, whatever speed im travelling at, at that moment  i will be locked on at my current speed, so if im at 200kts and i have set the speed hold to 240kts, it'll just reassign it to 200kts or whatever speed im at at the time instead of carrying on increasing speed to 240kts. Same applies to alt hold. If i've set alt hold to say 10000 before takeoff then during the climb i activate alt hold using the x52 assigned button, it'll just stop at the alt im currently flying at and reassign the alt hold from 10000 to current altitude.

What am i doing wrong?

Sorry for going off topic a little but how did you setup reverse thrust?

Tree Trimmer

Edited by Tree Trimmer, 11 January 2008 - 11:29 PM.

[Capt_Gabe]

I set button D on the throttle (right at your thumb) to "Throttle Decrease Quickly" (F2), under Buttons/Keys, category Engines, real handy on touchdown. I also set that little thumb slider to work the spoilers, so now I have almost analogue spoiler control, you get that choice under "Control Axes", Spoiler Axis.

[crashmaster]

CPT_Joske, on Jan 10 2008, 01:43 PM, said:

Well been messing and now the speed hold doesn't work. It won't change the airspeed on the flight deck but it sets the speed to current speed. Hence the problem has not been solved just looked as though it did.

CPT...I could be wrong here, but I think your problem is that your undoing all your preflight settings by using the commands you've assigned to your controller. As you've probably figured out...Alt Hold, Speed Hold, and Heading Hold, all capture your CURRENT attitude (which "undo's your preflight settings).

All you really need to do after you get airborne, is engage the AUTO PILOT, and separately engage the auto throttle (Mach Hold). If you want to do this from your controller instead of the keyboard (or mousing around), set one button on your controller for "Auto Pilot - Master" on/off, and another for Mach Hold. (They operate independant from each other). I believe you will also need to set "Auto Throttle ARM" during your pre-flight setup for the 737.

Also, there is also only 1 ALTitude Hold in controls. The other command is ATTitude Hold, a different bear.

I leave Auto Pilot (engage) on the keyboard so I don't accidently hit the button. Hope this helps, and not confuse. (I don't actually fly this a/c but they operate similarly).

[flapane]

please can you pass me your profile?

[CPT_Joske]

Tree Trimmer, on Jan 12 2008, 04:29 AM, said:

Sorry for going off topic a little but how did you setup reverse thrust?

Tree Trimmer

I set the F2 Key as the ' D ' Button on the throttle controller within the profile.

crashmaster, on Jan 12 2008, 12:39 PM, said:

CPT...I could be wrong here, but I think your problem is that your undoing all your preflight settings by using the commands you've assigned to your controller. As you've probably figured out...Alt Hold, Speed Hold, and Heading Hold, all capture your CURRENT attitude (which "undo's your preflight settings).

All you really need to do after you get airborne, is engage the AUTO PILOT, and separately engage the auto throttle (Mach Hold). If you want to do this from your controller instead of the keyboard (or mousing around), set one button on your controller for "Auto Pilot - Master" on/off, and another for Mach Hold. (They operate independant from each other). I believe you will also need to set "Auto Throttle ARM" during your pre-flight setup for the 737.

Also, there is also only 1 ALTitude Hold in controls. The other command is ATTitude Hold, a different bear.

I leave Auto Pilot (engage) on the keyboard so I don't accidently hit the button. Hope this helps, and not confuse. (I don't actually fly this a/c but they operate similarly).

Crashmaster i thought the same but when you fly the 737 in Virtual cockpit mode and make all the preflight settings, altitude and speed etc. Then use the buttons/switches on the cockpit and click them with the mouse you'll see that they adjust to the speed and altitude indicated and not current speed and alt. You see im not sure which is correct and which is a bug. Try it for yourself.

P.s your right its Altitude and Attitude, i didn't notice. Thanks.

flapane, on Jan 12 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

please can you pass me your profile?

flapane here is my FSX profile....

FSX Profile by CPT_Joske

Buttons are as follows...

Trigger - Brakes
FIRE - Autopilot Engage/Disengage
A - Flaps Down
B - Flaps Up
C - Spoilers
D - Reverse Thrust
E - Gear Up
T1 - Auto Throttle
T2 - Speed Hold
T3 - ALT Hold
T4 - NAV 1 Hold (For GPS)
T5 - Approach
T6 - Back Course

Edited by CPT_Joske, 13 January 2008 - 08:30 AM.

[-Dexter]

CPT_Joske, on Jan 13 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

Tree Trimmer, on Jan 12 2008, 04:29 AM, said:

Sorry for going off topic a little but how did you setup reverse thrust?

Tree Trimmer

I set the F2 Key as the ' D ' Button on the throttle controller within the profile.

crashmaster, on Jan 12 2008, 12:39 PM, said:

CPT...I could be wrong here, but I think your problem is that your undoing all your preflight settings by using the commands you've assigned to your controller. As you've probably figured out...Alt Hold, Speed Hold, and Heading Hold, all capture your CURRENT attitude (which "undo's your preflight settings).

All you really need to do after you get airborne, is engage the AUTO PILOT, and separately engage the auto throttle (Mach Hold). If you want to do this from your controller instead of the keyboard (or mousing around), set one button on your controller for "Auto Pilot - Master" on/off, and another for Mach Hold. (They operate independant from each other). I believe you will also need to set "Auto Throttle ARM" during your pre-flight setup for the 737.

Also, there is also only 1 ALTitude Hold in controls. The other command is ATTitude Hold, a different bear.

I leave Auto Pilot (engage) on the keyboard so I don't accidently hit the button. Hope this helps, and not confuse. (I don't actually fly this a/c but they operate similarly).

Crashmaster i thought the same but when you fly the 737 in Virtual cockpit mode and make all the preflight settings, altitude and speed etc. Then use the buttons/switches on the cockpit and click them with the mouse you'll see that they adjust to the speed and altitude indicated and not current speed and alt. You see im not sure which is correct and which is a bug. Try it for yourself.

P.s your right its Altitude and Attitude, i didn't notice. Thanks.

flapane, on Jan 12 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

please can you pass me your profile?

flapane here is my FSX profile....

FSX Profile by CPT_Joske

Buttons are as follows...

Trigger - Brakes
FIRE - Autopilot Engage/Disengage
A - Flaps Down
B - Flaps Up
C - Spoilers
D - Reverse Thrust
E - Gear Up
T1 - Auto Throttle
T2 - Speed Hold
T3 - ALT Hold
T4 - NAV 1 Hold (For GPS)
T5 - Approach
T6 - Back Course

You could always simply upload the profile file to a hosting site (such as Rapidshare or MegaUpload)- that way we can just download the file, and install it as a normal profile .

[CPT_Joske]

pwn247, on Jan 13 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

You could always simply upload the profile file to a hosting site (such as Rapidshare or MegaUpload)- that way we can just download the file, and install it as a normal profile .

Thing with Rapidshare and alike if your not a full member and the activity of the file drops they'll automatically remove the file. For now my profile is free hosted by me ....

FSX Profile by CPT_Joske

Right click 'Save as' and then open saitek profile creator and open this profile. Then run it.

Enjoy

[crashmaster]

crashmaster, on Jan 12 2008, 12:39 PM, said:

CPT...I could be wrong here, but I think your problem is that your undoing all your preflight settings by using the commands you've assigned to your controller. As you've probably figured out...Alt Hold, Speed Hold, and Heading Hold, all capture your CURRENT attitude (which "undo's your preflight settings).

All you really need to do after you get airborne, is engage the AUTO PILOT, and separately engage the auto throttle (Mach Hold). If you want to do this from your controller instead of the keyboard (or mousing around), set one button on your controller for "Auto Pilot - Master" on/off, and another for Mach Hold. (They operate independant from each other). I believe you will also need to set "Auto Throttle ARM" during your pre-flight setup for the 737.

Also, there is also only 1 ALTitude Hold in controls. The other command is ATTitude Hold, a different bear.

I leave Auto Pilot (engage) on the keyboard so I don't accidently hit the button. Hope this helps, and not confuse. (I don't actually fly this a/c but they operate similarly).

Crashmaster i thought the same but when you fly the 737 in Virtual cockpit mode and make all the preflight settings, altitude and speed etc. Then use the buttons/switches on the cockpit and click them with the mouse you'll see that they adjust to the speed and altitude indicated and not current speed and alt. You see im not sure which is correct and which is a bug. Try it for yourself.

P.s your right its Altitude and Attitude, i didn't notice. Thanks.


Maybe I don't understand what your trying to do (thought I did anyway). I tryed using the VC only, and it works great...(there is no bug). Ill take another stab...

Here's a pic of my pre-flight setup.



Notice that, the desired ALT, Heading, and Speed, are already set, and Autothrottle is engaged (AT/ARM). Also notice that "HDG SEL" and "ALT HLD" (lower yellow arrows) are already set (green indicators lit).

After takeoff...all that needs to be done is click 2 buttons (RED arrows) "CMD A", and "SPEED".  Your now on full autopilot.

I can do this from VC, 2D cockpit, or keyboard..alll works the same.

[CPT_Joske]

crashmaster, on Jan 14 2008, 12:10 AM, said:

crashmaster, on Jan 12 2008, 12:39 PM, said:

CPT...I could be wrong here, but I think your problem is that your undoing all your preflight settings by using the commands you've assigned to your controller. As you've probably figured out...Alt Hold, Speed Hold, and Heading Hold, all capture your CURRENT attitude (which "undo's your preflight settings).

All you really need to do after you get airborne, is engage the AUTO PILOT, and separately engage the auto throttle (Mach Hold). If you want to do this from your controller instead of the keyboard (or mousing around), set one button on your controller for "Auto Pilot - Master" on/off, and another for Mach Hold. (They operate independant from each other). I believe you will also need to set "Auto Throttle ARM" during your pre-flight setup for the 737.

Also, there is also only 1 ALTitude Hold in controls. The other command is ATTitude Hold, a different bear.

I leave Auto Pilot (engage) on the keyboard so I don't accidently hit the button. Hope this helps, and not confuse. (I don't actually fly this a/c but they operate similarly).

Crashmaster i thought the same but when you fly the 737 in Virtual cockpit mode and make all the preflight settings, altitude and speed etc. Then use the buttons/switches on the cockpit and click them with the mouse you'll see that they adjust to the speed and altitude indicated and not current speed and alt. You see im not sure which is correct and which is a bug. Try it for yourself.

P.s your right its Altitude and Attitude, i didn't notice. Thanks.


Maybe I don't understand what your trying to do (thought I did anyway). I tryed using the VC only, and it works great...(there is no bug). Ill take another stab...

Here's a pic of my pre-flight setup.



Notice that, the desired ALT, Heading, and Speed, are already set, and Autothrottle is engaged (AT/ARM). Also notice that "HDG SEL" and "ALT HLD" (lower yellow arrows) are already set (green indicators lit).

After takeoff...all that needs to be done is click 2 buttons (RED arrows) "CMD A", and "SPEED".  Your now on full autopilot.

I can do this from VC, 2D cockpit, or keyboard..alll works the same.

Crashmaster, this the problem im getting.

1. I set the Speed and Altitude before taxi.
2. I have all autopilots off except maybe auto/throttle ON.
3. On runway i still have all autopilots off.
4. As i take off i manually take her up, i eventaully enable autopilot airspeed hold then i switch on Altimeter hold and switch on NAV1. Doing this via clicking the switches in the aircraft works great. But when i use the keyboard or x52 joystick which impersonates keyboard commands it won't fly the same.

Try this....

Parked up at a gate or on a runway. Engines on or off. VC mode or Normal Cockpit. This doesn't really matter. Make sure all autopilot lights are off though.

1. Set your speed to 250. With autothrottle and speed hold off.
2. Reset Altimeter 'b'.
3. Set altimeter to 10000. Altitude hold off.
4. All autopilot lights must be off.

Now press

CTRL + T for ALT HOLD without CMD A (autopilot) being on.

You will now notice the set altitude from 10000 drop to the alitutude on ground level approx 300-400 depending. This is setting it to current altitude.

Now press

CTRL + R for SPEED HOLD without CMD A (autopilot) being on.

You will now notice the SPEED which was originally set at 250 drop to 0 upon pressing CTRL + R. This is setting it to current speed.

BUT HOLD ON...............

If you repeat steps 1-4, but instead of pressing the keyboard keys CTRL+T and CTRL+R click the Speed hold switches and altitude switches with your mouse and you'll notice a different reaction.

Clicking the Alt hold switch with the mouse, you'll notice the Altitude remains at 10000, but now the vertical speed has gone from 0 to 1800. This would mean the aircraft will now rise to the desired altitude.

Now make sure auto throttle is armed first, click the speed hold switch, you'll notice the speed will stay at 250, you'll notice there was no drop to 0 (current speed) and you'll notice the throttle levels move to full power. In real flight it would accelerate you to your desired speed.

Do understand what i am saying????

I want to know which of these is the glitch? Please test and report back. Im using FSX SP1 and SP2 installed.

[-Dexter]

^ The only autopilot I ever set is HDG and ALT HOLD. I always just keep the throttle at my preference.

[Grendizer]

Quote

CTRL + R for SPEED HOLD without CMD A (autopilot) being on.

You will now notice the SPEED which was originally set at 250 drop to 0 upon pressing CTRL + R. This is setting it to current speed.

CTRL+M (Mach Hold) is the key combo you're looking for. It activates speed hold and the speed won't drop.


Cheers

Gren

[crashmaster]

Do understand what i am saying????

     YES, the light switch just clicked on in my brain. Dah. I initially thought you were confused as to how to properly use the A/P. Never realized you REALLY wanting to activate ALT and HDG separately off the controller. I've always considered keyboard commands for HDG Hold and ALT Hold as "capture mode", so I don't use them much. Occationally, (when on full A/P, I'll use the heading hold keyboard command to DE-select heading hold from A/P control, so I can steer the A/C manually while leaving all other settings alone. Then reactivate Heading Hold after making a course correction.

So I guess the short answer to a long thread is...."Probably not going to happen"...at least with the default A/C.

But why would you want to do that anyway?? You already went through all the work of configuring all the pre-flight settings...easier to just engage the A/P and let it do it's thing.


I want to know which of these is the glitch? Please test and report back. Im using FSX SP1 and SP2 installed.
[/quote]

I don't think it's a "glitch", but rather by design. (all the default A/C A/P's seem to work similarly...I think). I admit it is a bit confusing. I didn't find anything in the "FSX Learning Center" that differentiated the keyboard command functionallity from that of the clickable buttons on the panel. (It would seem they should work the same). But I've always just taken it for granted.

[CPT_Joske]

@Crashmaster

Yeah I can fly the 737 perfectly, with or without the autopilot etc. The problem is getting the buttons on my joystick to behave the same way as when i click the a/p speed and alt hold in the cockpit.

What i really wanted was that as soon as i take off, i could keep my hands on the throttle levers and joystick and switch on the a/p functions from the joystick. But as discovered the keyboard commands work a lot differently than clicking them using the mouse.

I can't see this being normal. For example on a real a/c you have no joystick with buttons for a/p on the 737, its done by hand setting the a/p on etc. They only have one function.

I believe the key commands to be bugged. I mean there should never be two different reactions for the same control. I mean if you had no mouse or joystick and relied on keyboard, your 737 experience would be very bad.

This is my conclusion.CTRL + T and CTRL +R is a keyboard short cut for clicking the speed hold switch and altitude hold switch.  They should operate the same whether using the shortcut or using the mouse. They are speed hold and alt hold. Not current speed hold and current alt hold. They are infact a bug. What do you think Crashmaster? Do you agree?

@Grendizer

As i mentioned previously in one of my previous posts, the Mach Hold again only holds current speed even though the speed indicator remains at the set speed. The indicator won't change to current speed but if you monitor your speed you'll notice that the speed remains at the current speed. Again a bug.

[crashmaster]

CPT_Joske, on Jan 15 2008, 05:54 AM, said:

@Crashmaster

Yeah I can fly the 737 perfectly, with or without the autopilot etc. The problem is getting the buttons on my joystick to behave the same way as when i click the a/p speed and alt hold in the cockpit.

What i really wanted was that as soon as i take off, i could keep my hands on the throttle levers and joystick and switch on the a/p functions from the joystick. But as discovered the keyboard commands work a lot differently than clicking them using the mouse.

I can't see this being normal. For example on a real a/c you have no joystick with buttons for a/p on the 737, its done by hand setting the a/p on etc. They only have one function.

I believe the key commands to be bugged. I mean there should never be two different reactions for the same control. I mean if you had no mouse or joystick and relied on keyboard, your 737 experience would be very bad.

This is my conclusion.CTRL + T and CTRL +R is a keyboard short cut for clicking the speed hold switch and altitude hold switch.  They should operate the same whether using the shortcut or using the mouse. They are speed hold and alt hold. Not current speed hold and current alt hold. They are infact a bug. What do you think Crashmaster? Do you agree?

@Grendizer

As i mentioned previously in one of my previous posts, the Mach Hold again only holds current speed even though the speed indicator remains at the set speed. The indicator won't change to current speed but if you monitor your speed you'll notice that the speed remains at the current speed. Again a bug.

After googling this for an hour of two over coffee (I need to get a life), couldn't find squat on the subject. One unanswered post I did find, suggested that his A/P functionality (keyboard commands) went goofey after SP1. He went on to say the commands worked "normal" after uninstalling SP1, but then reinstalled and lived with the change. He was writing directly to what your referring to. But thats all I could find.

I still veiw it optomistically as..."extra functionality" and use it to my advantage. But that does leave you SOL for programming the stick.

But remember, most big plane pilots aren't using sticks anyways. I think (Boeings?) have an A/P disengage on the yoke, so they're punching buttons on the MCP. (I'm sure that doesn't make you feel any better).  

[CPT_Joske]

@Crashmaster

Ah well, you win some, you loose some. I'll live with it then. I'll just use the buttons on the joystick to disengage all autopilots prior to landing as turning them off still works correctly, meaning i can have full hands on control without having to touch the mouse to deselect a/p switches. Thanks for all your help.

See you in the virtual skys!

[lightplane]

Actually, there is a way. FSX only has a few of the keyboard/joystick assignments available through the controls setup screen. there are hundreds more.

To get your joystick key to work the same way as clicking on the panel autopilot, do the following:

1. Open standard.xml using Windows Notepad. In WinXP, you'll find it in c:\documents and settings\USERNAME\application data\microsoft\fsx\controls. (USERNAME is your computer login name usually)

I recommend you make a copy of "standard.xml" first and save it, with a name like "standard.xml.backup"

2. Open Standard.xml using Notepad

3. scroll down until you see the joystick assignment under the name of your joystick. or do a search for AP_ALT_HOLD and AP_HDG_HOLD. If you do this, note that standard.xml also has all of your keyboard assignments, which usually come first. Make sure you have the assignment for your joystick and not the keyboard (unless you want to change the keyboard too). Note also that there are two sections to each joystick, one of them is SLEW mode assignments - you can ignore these - just leave them as they are.

4. replace AP_ALT_HOLD with AP_PANEL_ALTITUDE_HOLD

5. replace AP_HDG_HOLD with AP_PANEL_HEADING_HOLD

6. and if you want, replace AP_AIRSPEED_HOLD with AP_PANEL_SPEED_HOLD

Save Standard.xml (it should be a text file, with the xml extension)

Run flight simulator and you should find that when you use your joystick switch, it acts the same as clicking on the button in the virtual cockpit or on the panel. This means you can set your altitude before takeoff, then use the alt hold button on your joystick and it will not reset your altitude (it will not capture your current altitude). Same goes for the heading and speed hold joystick buttons.

Make a backup of your new standard.xml too; if anything goes wrong, FSX will simply replace your standard.xml with the default one found in the main FSX folder. Making a backup will save you the trouble of reprogramming your joystick if this happens.

Edited by lightplane, 22 January 2009 - 02:23 AM.