29 replies to this topic

[Zboe]

I would like to start with a hearty hello to everyone and a pre thank you if you contribute to this discussion.

   Last summer I built the rig in my sig (currently clocked at 3.9 Ghz on air) and now it's time for a yearly refresh.  I am trying to keep the budget at or under $500.00 right now.  I am looking into keeping everything but the Mobo, CPU, and memory.  PSU, hard drives, video card, etc will stay the same.  Will probably be upgrading GPU around Christmas time in the hopes of better/cheaper DX 11 cards being available in the coming months.

   Something to keep in mind going forward, I will be switching to liquid cooling so any recommendations/idea's/etc should be based around massive overclocking in mind and not simply the stock performance of any chip.  Also as this is a flight sim forum I would like to keep FSX performance at the top of the priority list.  Right now even on max settings my CPU rarely goes over 70% load in anything but FSX.


   Currently I am looking into 4 possible CPU's.  All these chips make use of DDR3 ram.  And one more thing, I am focusing on current generation chips only not 775s and AM2s.


1)  Intel Core i3 540 dual core.  Starts with a speed of 3.06Ghz and has achievable speeds in excess of 6Ghz (with liquid helium cooling not for daily use) and with ~4.5Ghz easily attained this brings up the rear in new chips for FSX performance but with an average list price of $150.00 its pretty cheap (for Intel) and packs a punch with Hyper-threading.  However this chip has been known to fail even at moderate voltages with good cooling.


2)  AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition.  AM3 quad core with unlocked multiplier that runs at 3.4 Ghz stock.  Frankly speaking this chips overclocking ability is lacking.  Even with good cooling and lots of work 4.3ghz is probably the highest you will see for daily use from this CPU.  However with a list price of ~180.00 for a well rounded quad core it's certainly not terrible.  The little brother to this chip is the 955 which runs at 3.2Ghz and is usually ~$20.00 cheaper.


3)  AMD Phenom II 1055T.  AM3 6 core CPU at 2.8ghz speed and only ~$200.00.  This has better OC'ing potential than the X4 above in that 4+Ghz is attainable even starting at a 600Mhz disadvantage.  There is a big brother to this chip, the 1090T which has a factory clock of 3.2Ghz.  As we all know FSX loves having more cores so I am really looking into this chip for that reason.  However keep in mind that a faster clocked (Intel) quad core (And the hyper-threading i7 of any speed) will be better for just about everything else you use a computer for and most games but would be over budget for this discussion.


4) Intel Core i5 750.  Probably one of the best bang for buck quads on the market.  Even with a base clock of 2.66Ghz this chip will get to 4Ghz rather easily as long as you don't skimp on the mobo to much (sub ~$100.00 and to be honest there are even exceptions to that rule) even on air.  With liquid cooling 4.5+ or more is certainly possible even for daily use.  Given this CPU only cost ~$200.00 it seems like a good deal.


  I know it's a lot to digest for some of you but what do you guys think?  Agree or disagree or even agree to disagree if you want.  

   It seems as though most quality quad cores can expect ~4.0Ghz and dual cores seem to go higher (imagine that) but the AMD 6 core can attain similar speeds to the quads.  What do you guys think is better for FSX in the $200.00 and below market?

[Zboe]

4.2Ghz isn't blazing speed and is fairly average these days for a quad and is ~$70.00 over budget.  Granted you have hyper-threading and triple channel memory but that is why the chip cost more as well.

[_TW_]

Do you reside in the USA? Retail store Micro-Center sells the Core i7 930 at $199.99 plus tax, which is a spectacular deal compared to the online e-tailers.  Upgrading to a Core i3 dual-core is just not worth your time since you've already got a Core 2 at 4GHz.  What exactly is it about your system that you are not satisfied with at the moment?  A dual-core like yours, especially at 4GHz, should be more than enough to run FSX.  Upgrading to the options listed wouldn't make too much sense just for FSX, since it really doesn't provide a huge boost in frame-rates compared to your current system.

[pyruvate]

I have the Phenom II X6 1055T (bought it a few days after release).  I chose it because it was cheaper for me going AMD with CPU + Mobo, than going with the i5, plus the X6 has more cores.

Can't tell you how it performs because I haven't gotten my Motherboard yet!  My CPU, RAM, Video card, and case are all waiting.   India's really a when it comes to Computer hardware.

[Zboe]

Toby Werner, on Jun 12 2010, 06:13 AM, said:

Do you reside in the USA? Retail store Micro-Center sells the Core i7 930 at $199.99 plus tax, which is a spectacular deal compared to the online e-tailers.

Except the closest Micro-Center is almost 5 hours away and it looks like I can't buy the CPU online.  

Toby Werner, on Jun 12 2010, 06:13 AM, said:

Upgrading to a Core i3 dual-core is just not worth your time since you've already got a Core 2 at 4GHz.  What exactly is it about your system that you are not satisfied with at the moment?

  

Yeah, I just put it up there more as a case study.  If it was for certain I could get 5Ghz+ out of it then it would be much better.  Remember that the i3 does have hyper-threading but I am not certain how that will affect FSX myself.

Toby Werner, on Jun 12 2010, 06:13 AM, said:

A dual-core like yours, especially at 4GHz, should be more than enough to run FSX.  Upgrading to the options listed wouldn't make too much sense just for FSX, since it really doesn't provide a huge boost in frame-rates compared to your current system.

You would think so, but I like my airports populated with lots of AI.  Right now (for example) when I get to NYC my CPU pegs out at 100% and the computer starts to freeze up.  Oddly enough if I turn my scenery complexity to sparse the problem disappears  

bangalore_fellow, on Jun 12 2010, 09:20 AM, said:

I have the Phenom II X6 1055T (bought it a few days after release).  I chose it because it was cheaper for me going AMD with CPU + Mobo, than going with the i5, plus the X6 has more cores.

Can't tell you how it performs because I haven't gotten my Motherboard yet!  My CPU, RAM, Video card, and case are all waiting.   India's really a when it comes to Computer hardware.

Please make sure and post your results, I and I am sure others will want to know how it works out.  I for one am looking seriously at this chip for FSX.  If you don't mind, what motherboard and memory did you get to go with it?

[_TW_]

If you're computer starts freezing up at 100% utilization then your overclock is not stable.  Only thing you'd experience when the CPU is handling too much is stuttering/loss of FPS.  Shame about you living so far away from a Micro Center.  If I had to pick one from your list I'd go with the i5 750 system.  Or purchase a Q9550 & use the money that you saved towards a new graphics card?

Edit: I realize you stated that you didn't want to get another LGA 775 part, just putting it out there as the Q9550 is quite a performer, and can overclock just as well as the E8200 you have now.

Edited by Toby Werner, 12 June 2010 - 12:16 PM.

[Zboe]

Just to clarify, my build is 100% Prime 95 stable right now.  What I am experiencing is hard to explain but goes something like everything is fine then FSX freezes up for 3-5 seconds then everything returning to normal for 3-5 seconds and repeating.  When it freezes I can't access the ALT menu along the top or minimize FSX.  It seems as though the CPU is bottle necking and cannot cope with everything going on.  This ONLY happens in and around NYC in FSX and with 3 fairly large airports with loads of AI traffic in the area this hardly surprises me.  Everywhere else such as KLAX, EGLL, and other large facilities my FPS just takes a dive but it does remain flyable.

And although I did have to RMA my video card (same model, type, etc) anytime my FPS tanks it's always when the CPU goes to 100% utilization.  A bad overclock WILL give you CTDs, Fatal errors and other random crashes and may not even load FSX at all if it's really shaky.   Right now my FSX can run for weeks at a time with 0 issues.

[audiohavoc]

pulluporcrash, on Jun 12 2010, 02:45 AM, said:

4.2Ghz isn't blazing speed and is fairly average these days for a quad and is ~$70.00 over budget.  Granted you have hyper-threading and triple channel memory but that is why the chip cost more as well.

I purchased my i7 920 D0 for $199 at Micro Center, and it is running on air at 4.4Ghz.  I believe the i7 930 is now $180 at Micro Center.  These prices are in-store pickup only.

[Zboe]

audiohavoc, on Jun 12 2010, 04:09 PM, said:

I purchased my i7 920 D0 for $199 at Micro Center, and it is running on air at 4.4Ghz.  I believe the i7 930 is now $180 at Micro Center.  These prices are in-store pickup only.

1)  I want more performance for FSX than I currently have.

2)  I want it on a reasonable budget.  It is not arbitrary or negotiable.

3)  The question is, which one of the chips listed will give the biggest boost to FSX performance.


-Edit- I think I am going to rule the x4 965 out, although the price isn't bad the available headroom and the fact that it is a 140w chip means it just won't keep up in overclocking.  So it is now between AMD hexa cores and Intel quad cores.

Edited by pulluporcrash, 12 June 2010 - 06:47 PM.

[Buziel-411_RED]

pulluporcrash, on Jun 12 2010, 06:41 PM, said:

audiohavoc, on Jun 12 2010, 04:09 PM, said:

I purchased my i7 920 D0 for $199 at Micro Center, and it is running on air at 4.4Ghz.  I believe the i7 930 is now $180 at Micro Center.  These prices are in-store pickup only.

1)  I want more performance for FSX than I currently have.

2)  I want it on a reasonable budget.  It is not arbitrary or negotiable.

3)  The question is, which one of the chips listed will give the biggest boost to FSX performance.

Why are you limiting your options when there are better alternatives?

Anyways, out of those four, I would get the i5. I have the same chip myself, and coupled with a GTX 275 and the Jesus Tweak, FSX runs very well.

[_BD6_]

The more important question here is .. why are you expecting to achieve higher than 4.2ghz? (your OP makes it sound like so)

4.2ghz is fantastic, more than enough to run any game, especially FSX. Just switching to water-cooling will not magically make it possible for you to get 4.5+ ghz.

I would go with the i5-750 out of that list.

[Zboe]

uber-N69204, on Jun 12 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

4.2ghz is fantastic, more than enough to run any game, especially FSX. Just switching to water-cooling will not magically make it possible for you to get 4.5+ ghz.

http://valid.canardp...c.php?id=722679

That's STILL on air.  Right now the record is 5593.9Mhz with LN2 cooling.  Granted you won't use LN2 for a daily rig though.  CPU temperature and stability are affected by voltages and higher voltages means more heat so the better the cooling generally equals better overclocks.

-edit- incomplete sentence ftl



What I REALLY want to know is how the 6 core AMD chips perform in FSX.

Edited by pulluporcrash, 12 June 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[jcrouse55]

pulluporcrash, on Jun 12 2010, 08:29 PM, said:

uber-N69204, on Jun 12 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

4.2ghz is fantastic, more than enough to run any game, especially FSX. Just switching to water-cooling will not magically make it possible for you to get 4.5+ ghz.

http://valid.canardp...c.php?id=722679

That's STILL on air.  Right now the record is 5593.9Mhz with LN2 cooling.  Granted you won't use LN2 for a daily rig though.  CPU temperature and stability are affected by voltages and higher voltages means more heat so the better the cooling generally equals better overclocks.

-edit- incomplete sentence ftl



What I REALLY want to know is how the 6 core AMD chips perform in FSX.

Then I suggest you read the reviews, they all say that the i7 920's outperform the Phenom II x6 1055T in most everything and is still on top in Gaming! Here is a link to just one review. http://www.guru3d.co...-1090t-review/1

[_BD6_]

pulluporcrash, on Jun 12 2010, 09:29 PM, said:

uber-N69204, on Jun 12 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

4.2ghz is fantastic, more than enough to run any game, especially FSX. Just switching to water-cooling will not magically make it possible for you to get 4.5+ ghz.

http://valid.canardp...c.php?id=722679

That's STILL on air.  Right now the record is 5593.9Mhz with LN2 cooling.  Granted you won't use LN2 for a daily rig though.  CPU temperature and stability are affected by voltages and higher voltages means more heat so the better the cooling generally equals better overclocks.

-edit- incomplete sentence ftl



What I REALLY want to know is how the 6 core AMD chips perform in FSX.

You misunderstood my post. What I meant is you can't expect numbers until you get the cpu and do it yourself, I personally think its a bit ridiculous to push for more than 4.2ghz.

And just because its 6-core, doesn't mean it'll offer more performance. You won't notice any difference probably, cept in encoding and stuff like that.

i5, i7 or go home.

[Zboe]

FSX is a multi-threaded CPU bound sim and the AMD 6 cores are AMAZING for multi-threaded CPU intensive task.  

Some of you seem to be itching for a flame war.



-edit-

Just to make it clear  I have probably poured over the 1055/90T review over at guru3d about a dozen times...Each time it says the same thing.  It's a excellent CPU for multi-threaded CPU intensive programs.  FSX even though it's a "game" falls into that category easily.  And until we have proof to the contrary saying things like i5/i7 or go home is moving toward flame war and not real data.

Edited by pulluporcrash, 13 June 2010 - 05:58 AM.

[Zboe]

I found SOMETHING although it's not much.  A "SINGLE" test was done and no hard data was collected however.  But if it makes you feel better...

"As far as using the new 6 core AMD processor it does just fine in FSX if that is what you want, however the price equivalent i7 750 setup correctly does just as well and gives up a faster upgrade with i7 870 and 875 for 1156 socket. The six core so far has not been able to match the speed of these. Hopefully more games will appear on the horizon that will utilize all of the AMD six-core potential. FSX did recognize and utilize all six cores in the TechCorp tests."

Now then, all kinds of assumptions can and probably will be made based on this.  But to put it simply not enough is known about this test to infer any real result from it sadly enough.  

But I'll try anyway.

There are negative and positive comments for both camps here.  For one he says the 6 core is "fine" for FSX.  On the other he says "equivalent i7 750 setup correctly does just as well" which is a crummy way to word things.  

The only possible conclusion that can be made is that the two chips are equal(ish?).  But then "faster upgrade with i7 870 and 875 for 1156 socket. The six core so far has not been able to match the speed of these" which tells us well not a whole lot because they never said WHICH 6 core they tested.

I did run across this tidbit in another thread from the same site posted by the same guy "I would not hesitate to build an FSX system with the Phenom II X6 1090t."

Hmm, so it's safe to assume they tested the 1090T then right?  


The one thing I want people to remember is this;  I DO realize the i7 is amazing for FSX.   I probably know it better than most of the people that actually own one...But I am after something different here.  I want to find the BEST bang for the buck in FSX performance.  Any "meathead" can spend money and end up with an i7 system almost by accident and be golden.  For a while Tigerdirect had AMD 6 cores at $125.00.  Just saying.

[pyruvate]

^ If you can hold out for a few more days I'll test out my X6 1055T and end this once in for all .

[jcrouse55]

pulluporcrash, on Jun 13 2010, 06:57 AM, said:

I found SOMETHING although it's not much.  A "SINGLE" test was done and no hard data was collected however.  But if it makes you feel better...

"As far as using the new 6 core AMD processor it does just fine in FSX if that is what you want, however the price equivalent i7 750 setup correctly does just as well and gives up a faster upgrade with i7 870 and 875 for 1156 socket. The six core so far has not been able to match the speed of these. Hopefully more games will appear on the horizon that will utilize all of the AMD six-core potential. FSX did recognize and utilize all six cores in the TechCorp tests."

Now then, all kinds of assumptions can and probably will be made based on this.  But to put it simply not enough is known about this test to infer any real result from it sadly enough.  

But I'll try anyway.

There are negative and positive comments for both camps here.  For one he says the 6 core is "fine" for FSX.  On the other he says "equivalent i7 750 setup correctly does just as well" which is a crummy way to word things.  

The only possible conclusion that can be made is that the two chips are equal(ish?).  But then "faster upgrade with i7 870 and 875 for 1156 socket. The six core so far has not been able to match the speed of these" which tells us well not a whole lot because they never said WHICH 6 core they tested.

I did run across this tidbit in another thread from the same site posted by the same guy "I would not hesitate to build an FSX system with the Phenom II X6 1090t."

Hmm, so it's safe to assume they tested the 1090T then right?  


The one thing I want people to remember is this;  I DO realize the i7 is amazing for FSX.   I probably know it better than most of the people that actually own one...But I am after something different here.  I want to find the BEST bang for the buck in FSX performance.  Any "meathead" can spend money and end up with an i7 system almost by accident and be golden.  For a while Tigerdirect had AMD 6 cores at $125.00.  Just saying.

And how is it possible that you know i7 better than those of us that have built a system and used it? You seem to be making all kinds of differing statements, and if you know all about i7's then why are you asking all the questions? Just build your PhenomII x6 and enjoy FSX!  Happy Flying.