13 replies to this topic

[IBtheSarge]

Well, folks; sorry to say, but in checking around the flt sim forum world, it appears that Lee Swordy will NOT be producing any further updates of AFCAD.  Version 2.21 is apparently the final product.

1.  The history of AFCAD includes updates every 4 - 6 months; v2.21 was produced 1/2/2004 and has not been updated since.

2.  Lee hasn't been heard from on the multitude of forums that have AFCAD discussion areas.

Coming up to the 2nd anniversary of the current, unupdated version, and with no recent contact by the originator .....  If we designers are lucky, maybe Lee will return with an expanded/updated AFCAD when the next version of MSFS comes out.

[russianboy]

But even though it would be nice to have a new AFCAD, what's wrong with the current version of AFCAD?

[IBtheSarge]

Absolutely nothing; it works just fine with FS9.  Hopefully, it will work fine with FS10 (or Lee will come back one more time) .....

It was rumored that Lee was working on object placement and using backdrops in the next version of AFCAD, which would have been a BIG leap forward for designers.  But, that's not to be.

[SpectroPro]

Howdy all....my first post here.  This topic weighs heavily on me, and as such, I have tried to get hold of Lee using several methods and many times.  It is as if he has quite literally vanished.  

What I can't figure out, is with the incredible wealth of programming talent that we have seen in people making software for FS, WHY isn't anyone picking up the afcad legacy???!!!

The features that Lee mentions are exactly what is needed to make AFCAD THE only program you would need for airport creation.  Background image of the airport...or even better would be if you could run fs9 with afcad litterally ON TOP of it.  How cool would that be.  And the ability to add scenery right in afcad...I mean, that would be the only software I would ever need..  I think.. LOL

Anyways, maybe someone on one of these forums will see my messages and take over the job...  Lee created an incredible and indispensible software tool, but if he won't or can't finish it, someone else needs to step in and either take it over, or create a new version.

- Greg
-----
There are 10 types of people in the world...those that get binary, and those that don't!

Edited by SpectroPro, 23 January 2006 - 04:29 AM.

[IBtheSarge]

SpectroPro, on Jan 23 2006, 05:28 AM, said:

Howdy all....my first post here.  This topic weighs heavily on me, and as such, I have tried to get hold of Lee using several methods and many times.  It is as if he has quite literally vanished.  

What I can't figure out, is with the incredible wealth of programming talent that we have seen in people making software for FS, WHY isn't anyone picking up the afcad legacy???!!!

The features that Lee mentions are exactly what is needed to make AFCAD THE only program you would need for airport creation.  Background image of the airport...or even better would be if you could run fs9 with afcad litterally ON TOP of it.  How cool would that be.  And the ability to add scenery right in afcad...I mean, that would be the only software I would ever need..  I think.. LOL

Anyways, maybe someone on one of these forums will see my messages and take over the job...  Lee created an incredible and indispensible software tool, but if he won't or can't finish it, someone else needs to step in and either take it over, or create a new version.

- Greg
-----
There are 10 types of people in the world...those that get binary, and those that don't!

First problem:  to "continue" Lee's work would require that Lee release his copyright/intellectual property rights to AFCAD.  (Simply because you don't have to pay to get something doesn't mean there is no copyright on it.)  This problem includes anyone who uses Lee's code as a basis to make their own program to replace Lee's (that's the intellectual property rights part of it).

Second problem:  Anyone starting now, from scratch, to create a program that would replace Lee's work might be wasting their time.  No one knows what the conventions/changes are going to be for FS X (which will release sometime around Christmas 2006, supposedly).  By the time (or even before) they're finished writing the program, testing it, adjusting it, and releasing it, it may prove to be useless with the new version of the sim.

For the time being, I'm using Google Earth and its measurement tool to get the specific dimensions, then manipulating the AFCAD components to get it accurate.

[SpectroPro]

Yeah, I know about the rights issues.  I deal with those every day with my own work.  However, I do know that (and yes, this could be considered extreme) you can get around that with public notification of intent to do so.  You simply need to inform the owner of the rights, of your intention to use their work.  In the USA (no clue about other countries) that person has 30 days to respond.  If they don't, it is assumed that they no longer care about the rights.

Of course, as you state, with 10 comming out so soon, it would not be worth it to start from scratch now.  But we both know that there are ways to reverse engineer any program.  Again, maybe not worth it..  

I only bring it up because as I stated, he seems to have vanished...and I do pray that nothing bad has happened, he may simply have decided to go away from the net.  I know others that have done just that.  I know a few people that consider themselves friends of his, and they have said that while they used to be in touch daily, they have not heard from him in over a year.  If anyone knows if he is well, I know may people would like to at least know that.  

Please expand on your use of the Google earth if you would.  That sounds interesting to say the least.  I use it myself, but have not used it for design work except to check on things such areas around the airport and landclass types that should really be there....

[IBtheSarge]

SpectroPro, on Jan 23 2006, 12:50 PM, said:

simply need to inform the owner of the rights, of your intention to use their work.  In the USA (no clue about other countries) that person has 30 days to respond.  If they don't, it is assumed that they no longer care about the rights.

True; but you would have to be prepared to defend that inference in court.  Registered mail, signature required, to prove they got your notice.

SpectroPro, on Jan 23 2006, 12:50 PM, said:

Of course, as you state, with 10 comming out so soon, it would not be worth it to start from scratch now.  But we both know that there are ways to reverse engineer any program.  Again, maybe not worth it..

Careful; that's "hacking" and a VERY touchy subject in these forums.     

SpectroPro, on Jan 23 2006, 12:50 PM, said:

Please expand on your use of the Google earth if you would.  That sounds interesting to say the least.  I use it myself, but have not used it for design work except to check on things such areas around the airport and landclass types that should really be there....

Open Google Earth, give it a location (i.e., Albuquerque, NM) and when it gets there, center on Albuquerque International Sunport (you'll probably have to expand out a bit unless you stop Google Earth from zooming all the way in).  To get the length/width of the main runway (for example), on the Google Earth toolbar there is a "Tools" item, and within that is "Measurement."  You can set it for meters, kilometers, feet, miles, whatever.  Your cursor changes; put it on one end of the runway and drag it to the other end; you'll see the read-out in the "Measurement" box that stays on-screen.  Once you have that, put your cursor on either end of the line you just made, right click the mouse to get rid of that line, reposition the cursor on one side of the runway, and drag it to the other side to get the width.  You can measure building dimensions (except height) and distance between buildings.  It doesn't give angles or headings, though; you have to work that out in the AFCAD.

[PiP]

Plus you would need the scource code to continue work on it. And I suspect it's C++ which I'm a stranger to atm.

[SpectroPro]

Yeah, I know the hacking thing....  things I have written years ago were hacked..  sucks, but you don't program without knowing it will occur.  I was simply stating that if you came into the rights, you 'could' get the code....  I never got into hacking as I find it to be a waste of my time.  If I want to play with someone elses code, I simply ask them.  You'd be amazed how many will say ok.

----

Ok, 'nough of that...

----
I never thought of using the GE for that...  I actually took a more painful method...hehe

I went to the local airport and made a few measurements.  Between some hangers, a taxiway, and the runway to get the exact measurements...not just (100' wide).

Once I had those measurements, I got a top down sat photo of the airport.  View the picture at like 800X and measure the same areas that I had actual numbers for.  Count the number of pixels and divide to get feet per pixel.  The numbers matched up nicely.  I then (in photoshop) used the line tool to draw lines for all the measurements I needed.  Take the pixel length of the lines and get my measurements in feet.  

Some that I had not done at the airport I then took and did them.  Perfect match within a foot.  A royal pain, but it works.  The only time I had any problem was a few buildings were casting shadows that were the same color as the roofs (grey photos) and I had to guess where the building really ended.  LOL  

I will test out the GE measurement and see how close it really is.  Could make it much easier as I won't have to do the math (although, I have a very nice database already set up with foot/pixel ratios already done from 1 foot to 2000 feet.

Thanks for the tip!

Edited by SpectroPro, 23 January 2006 - 12:42 PM.

[IBtheSarge]

SpectroPro, on Jan 23 2006, 01:39 PM, said:

I never thought of using the GE for that...  I actually took a more painful method...hehe

From your detailed description, I see why you chose the word "painful" as the desciption.  

Google Earth may not work for you in all circumstances; for some reason, it doesn't present ALL areas of the globe with the same resolution.  For example, zooming in on Albuquerque, New Mexico is superb ... but zooming in anywhere in Queensland, Australia leaves a LOT to be desired with the resolution GE presents.  (Just once, just one time, I'd like to find a resource that treats ALL of the globe with the same consideration .....   )

[SpectroPro]

Yeah, luckily, in the Cincinnati, Ohio USA area, we have one of the clear zoomed areas.  I do know for a fact however, as they get new data for an area, they incorporate it.  A friend of mine (Groundsquirrel), John, in Navarre, Florida was in an area that was low res.  Really bad.  They have currently upgraded his area to high res.  I believe the old data was from like 99 and the new is from 2003.  Still not NEW, but much nicer.  

You would think with all the satalites flying around snapping shots of the earth non stop, this information would be much easier to come by for mapping and such as this.

- Greg
President - Flight Simulator Design University
http://www.fsduniverse.com

[IBtheSarge]

SpectroPro, on Jan 25 2006, 04:46 PM, said:

Yeah, luckily, in the Cincinnati, Ohio USA area, we have one of the clear zoomed areas.  I do know for a fact however, as they get new data for an area, they incorporate it.  A friend of mine (Groundsquirrel), John, in Navarre, Florida was in an area that was low res.  Really bad.  They have currently upgraded his area to high res.  I believe the old data was from like 99 and the new is from 2003.  Still not NEW, but much nicer.  

You would think with all the satalites flying around snapping shots of the earth non stop, this information would be much easier to come by for mapping and such as this.

- Greg
President - Flight Simulator Design University
http://www.fsduniverse.com

It probably is available .... if you pay for the subscription.  But if (like me) you're just using the freeware side of Google Earth, well -- ya know what errant step-children get, right?  

[SpectroPro]

That was my point....Google updates as soon as they can get the new data...  My point being that I am surprised they get the new data as slowly as they do....  Pretty sure THEY have the money...hehe

[IBtheSarge]

SpectroPro, on Jan 25 2006, 11:32 PM, said:

That was my point....Google updates as soon as they can get the new data...  My point being that I am surprised they get the new data as slowly as they do....  Pretty sure THEY have the money...hehe

If we paid for the subscription level, we'd probably get the updates as fast as they do .... free users are probably on a different server that doesn't get updated as often as the one for the subscribers.  Money gets, freebies wait.