11 replies to this topic

[gsnde]

Hi all,

I am working my way into Scenery Design by doing a closed German Airforce base (EDSG, RF-4 Phantom, recon). This is intentionally half-fictitious to give me the opportunity to try out the many things you can do with FS. The real EDSG had only one runway.  

To give you the general picture: EDSG is located between two rows of mountains, the Black Forest and the Vogues, and very close to the French border. Therefore only parallel runways.

I have added a second runway (the above one) and parking section (for heavy aircrafts, top left). The triangular shaped area at the left corner is a SAM missile location (and another one at the opposite site).

Housing area and HQ are at the top (middle to right site). Then further to the right you see a lake (separate AFCAD file with tower freq. for AI) and close nearby a Heliport (made with the same method).

AI traffic is working fine for both main runways and for the Heli- and Seaport as well.

At the button left is the ammunition storage area. Both this area and the complete airport is fenced.  

The jets have their parking area at the three circle spots.

Does this make any sense to you?

Cheers and thanks,
Martin

[IBtheSarge]

gsnde, on Mar 28 2006, 10:29 AM, said:

I am working my way into Scenery Design by doing a closed German Airforce base (EDSG, RF-4 Phantom, recon). This is intentionally half-fictitious to give me the opportunity to try out the many things you can do with FS. The real EDSG had only one runway.

(First things first -- the tutorials will be ready Wednesday evening, Florida time.     Also, sometime next week my "new" colletion of military objects will be ready.  They're MDL objects so they can be placed with XML -- compiled to BGL with bglcomp -- and there will be library versions compatible with EZ-Scenery, Runway 12, and SBuilder.  Objects include:  hangars for military cargo aircraft, tankers, bombers, fighters, and helicopters; hardened flow-thru aircraft shelters [aka "wonder arches"] for fighter alert areas; revetment walls for bombers with terrain textures that change with the seasons   ; munitions storage igloos with terrain textures that change with the seasons; underground cut-and-cover bulk fuel storage tanks with terrain textures that change with the seasons; two or three different control towers; Base Operations facility; MAC Terminal facility; fire/crash/rescue facility; two quadrangles of BOQ/BAQ [batchelor officers' quarters and batchelor airmen's quarters]; civil engineering complex; security police complex; wing headquarters; group headquarters; three warehouse versions, in 200', 400' and 600' lengths; and varyious lengths of chainlink fence sections.)

Now .... on your runways, was the base actually laid out with taxiways connecting directly, in-line with the ends of the runways?  Generally, the taxiways will cross the runway (making a T-intersection) rather than branch left or right to connect in-line with the runway.  If that's how the base was laid out originally, then stick with it; it's not a problem, just a curiosity.

Next, the fighter "circles" -- those are going to be some very labour-intensive taxi jobs making all those turns and following the curves.  Again, not a problem, just a curiosity.  The AI should be able to handle it fine, but user-flyable is gonna have some problems.  Remember, some folks have problems turning from an intersecting taxiway onto a runway, and that's just a gentle 90-degree turn after following straight lines.  

You might also want to rethink using AFCAD to make ground textures.  Check AVSIM's file library for a program called EZ-Landclass.  It's an Excel-based spreadsheet that connects with FS9 (you have to start FS9 first, minimize, then open the EZ-Landclass spreadsheet).  Then taxi to a point where you want to change the ground cover (like the center of the airport area) then use the landclass codes in EZ-Scenery to change the terrain.  You may have to do more than a single block in the spreadsheet to get the entire airport area changed; but EZ-Landclass is easy to use.  It compiles the new terrain codes into a scenery BGL that you can put in your base's scenery folder.

Other than the above three comments, looks like a good job in progress.  

Edited by sarge, 28 March 2006 - 11:31 AM.

[gsnde]

Thank you Sarge ! Coming from you this is a big compliment.

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…was the base actually laid out with taxiways connecting directly, in-line with the ends of the runways?

No. My father in law already gave me ###### [now this is funny, is this very hot place deep down under a word which counts as bad language here in the forum? it gets kind of auto-censored] for this some minutes ago, and he should know (it was his base). Rework will be done later this evening.

By the way, I looked at your KPSM design to make sure that I don't mess up things again and have a question about your node layout.



Instinctively I would have placed the last node (with arrow) to the right of the hold short node (where I made the dotted line). Is there a reason to do it the way you did?

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Next, the fighter "circles" -- those...

At least here I knew what I did. This is the original:

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...rethink using AFCAD to make ground textures...

I thought I had them all... twenty something tools with eight to ten being essential. And now you tell me that I can work with Excel - my absolute favorite. (Without Excel I would be at a complete loss in my profession - IT project manager). I do all my AI programming in Excel.
Your remark is absolutely appropriate. I am not happy with the look of my "grass textures". I will get EZ-Landclass right after this post.

And your introduction ... could not have been timed any better. What you can't see is that this AFCAD is a total reworked Version2, and all eye candy objects need to be brought to their correct position again. Now I will wait for your library and can finally stop parking my RF-4s and Eurofighters in British WW-II hangars (however nice they do look).

Cheers,
Martin

[IBtheSarge]

gsnde, on Mar 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

My father in law already gave me for this some minutes ago, and he should know (it was his base). Rework will be done later this evening.

  Yep, ya gotta be careful around ol' zoomies.  We're kinda nit-picky when it comes to bases where we've been stationed.  

gsnde, on Mar 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

By the way, I looked at your KPSM design to make sure that I don't mess up things again and have a question about your node layout.  Instinctively I would have placed the last node (with arrow) to the right of the hold short node (where I made the dotted line). Is there a reason to do it the way you did?

That node leads from/to the hammerhead (aka Arm/Dearm area).  The reason it's ahead of the hold-short nodes is because once the aircraft is confirmed armed and all "Remove Before Flight" pins removed, tower will give take-off instructions to the pilot before he leaves the hammerhead.  When he starts to roll, it's his decision whether or not to make a rolling take-off or take the active, ramp up and then go for it.  As Pease was a nuclear alert base, time spent at the hammerhead would have been minimal during a scramble and the pilots would have probably done rolling take-offs as quick as they were armed/cleared to expedite launch and go enroute to target.

gsnde, on Mar 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

I thought I had them all... twenty something tools with eight to ten being essential. And now you tell me that I can work with Excel - my absolute favorite. (Without Excel I would be at a complete loss in my profession - IT project manager). I do all my AI programming in Excel.  Your remark is absolutely appropriate. I am not happy with the look of my "grass textures". I will get EZ-Landclass right after this post.

   As you progress through designs, you'll find yourself collecting more and more "tools" to make life easier.  Eventually you may even get into SBuilder and do nearly everything in that one program, including terrain manipulation of both landclass and waterclass.  Ground2k4 is another program for altering terrain.

gsnde, on Mar 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

And your introduction ... could not have been timed any better. What you can't see is that this AFCAD is a total reworked Version2, and all eye candy objects need to be brought to their correct position again. Now I will wait for your library and can finally stop parking my RF-4s and Eurofighters in British WW-II hangars (however nice they do look).

All hangars are taxi-in, too.  The fighter hangar can have two F-111's inside at the same time, wings fully extended.  Once you place one, you can open AFCAD and open FS9, taxi inside one of them, minimize FS9 and place a parking spot on the cross-hair AFCAD uses to show where your aircraft is.  Then just connect it to an apron route, save it, shut down FS9, and the next time you start FS9 ATC will use that parking spot (after you give it right aircraft_parking_codes).  The textures are not necessarily indicative of military paint schemes, but they aren't garish, bold colors either.  Bomber hangar will take a B-1, B-2 or B-52 fully inside; cargo hangar will take a C-5, C-17, C-130 (maybe two of those), or C-141 fully inside; tanker hangar will take a KC-10, KC-130, or KC-135; helo hangar will take two UH-60's (or smaller) inside with rotors fully deployed.

The hardened flow-thru aircraft shelters are "rolled" concrete or weather-beaten "rolled" aluminium coverings.  Just pick a fighter parking spot, note the heading of that spot and the lat/lon of that spot, then place the HAS at the same coords/hdg.  They too are big enough to take an F-111 wholly inside with the wings fully extended.  To proof the MDLs, I have a "private airbase, somewhere in the high Nevada desert"    that I use; I'll do my screenshots there and post some of them prior to releasing the package.

In the civilian package will be MDLs for an ILS transmitter, VOR/DME (or TACAN if you prefer to name it that), and an NDB transmitter, plus some other odds & ends that would normally be found on civilian airdromes but may also appear on military airbases.

[PiP]

Just one question from me.

Do those hold short rings on the ends of the runways actually cover the runways? If not - pain is pending.

[gsnde]

PiP, on Sarge's behalf - yes they cover the runway. I zoomed in heavily to make the screenshot.

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That node leads from/to the hammerhead (aka Arm/Dearm area). The reason it's ahead of the hold-short nodes is because once the aircraft is confirmed armed and all "Remove Before Flight" pins removed, tower will give take-off instructions to the pilot before he leaves the hammerhead. When he starts to roll, it's his decision whether or not to make a rolling take-off or take the active, ramp up and then go for it. As Pease was a nuclear alert base, time spent at the hammerhead would have been minimal during a scramble and the pilots would have probably done rolling take-offs as quick as they were armed/cleared to expedite launch and go enroute to target.

What I am wondering about ... Sarge's explanation of the Hold Short layout makes perfect sense for real world flying. But talking about FS AI, will placing the connection left of the Hold Short node not lead to getting the Hold Short node bypassed by AI planes ?  

Knowing Sarge it must work this way, but I fail to understand why that can be.

Cheers,
Martin

[IBtheSarge]

PiP, on Mar 29 2006, 06:57 AM, said:

Just one question from me.

Do those hold short rings on the ends of the runways actually cover the runways? If not - pain is pending.

The large ring around the hold short nodes (red ones, not the yellow ones) should bisect the runway centerline.  If they intrude beyond the runway mid-point, they cause AI aircraft on the runway trying to turn off at an intersection to "hold short."  This is a common cause of user complaints of the AI staying on the runway until they time-out.  Somewhere down the runway, is a hold short node that intrudes too far into the runway and becomes a hold short point for aircraft on the runway.  Another common cause is the hold short lines are facing the wrong direction -- solid lines on the ramp side, broken lines on the runway side.

If they don't reach far enough into the runway, it usually isn't a problem but could cause delayed take-off clearances because the aircraft holding short is too far from the runway.  (Try it; taxi from a parking spot and stop well before the hold short line.  Try to get take-off clearance from tower ... that option doesn't appear in your ATC box until you're closer to the runway.)  Maneuver the large ring as close as you can to the runway centerline without going beyond the centerline.  A little short is no problem; a little over stops AI dead in their tracks.

Edited by sarge, 29 March 2006 - 06:56 PM.

[IBtheSarge]

gsnde, on Mar 29 2006, 08:13 AM, said:

What I am wondering about ... Sarge's explanation of the Hold Short layout makes perfect sense for real world flying. But talking about FS AI, will placing the connection left of the Hold Short node not lead to getting the Hold Short node bypassed by AI planes ? 

Knowing Sarge it must work this way, but I fail to understand why that can be.

Cheers,
Martin

AI aircraft (oddly enough) aren't affected by the hammerhead routes.  FS9's ATC doesn't seem to want to route AI aircraft along those paths; for some reason, it's perfectly willing to stack them up behind each other while they await take-off clearance on the taxiway centerlines.

The hammerhead routes are purely for user-flyable aircraft and users who want to accurately simulate a launch .... clearance to taxi, arm/dearm check, clearance for take-off, kick the tires and light the fires.  

[gsnde]

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The hammerhead routes are purely for user-flyable aircraft

That makes sense, Sarge.

I reworked the runways according to your suggestions. Does this layout get your approval  ?





As you can see the AFCAD textures are gone    Since I did the Seaport lake in SBuilder already, I used that tool for the grass textures as well - although Excel would have been tempting. What a difference - now the base is not looking like a big billard table on approach (not to talk about the former appearance in winter...).

The next days I will see what difference it makes to replace the AFCAD apron and sand textures.

Are you using the FS default textures for your airports or can you advise something better?

Cheers,
Martin

[IBtheSarge]

gsnde, on Mar 30 2006, 07:14 AM, said:

I reworked the runways according to your suggestions. Does this layout get your approval  ?

  Doesn't need MY approval, mate; if it works for you, go for it.  But it does look more like a real lay-out now.  

gsnde, on Mar 30 2006, 07:14 AM, said:

As you can see the AFCAD textures are gone    Since I did the Seaport lake in SBuilder already, I used that tool for the grass textures as well - although Excel would have been tempting. What a difference - now the base is not looking like a big billard table on approach (not to talk about the former appearance in winter...).
The next days I will see what difference it makes to replace the AFCAD apron and sand textures.
Are you using the FS default textures for your airports or can you advise something better?

Just a couple of things:

If you're familiar with SBuilder, I'd stick with it.  Luis' program is FAR superior to EZ-Landclass, if nothing else, for the versatility it gives you to manipulate just about any aspect of FS9 terrain and objects.  You'll have to balance that with your personal inclination towards Excel.  

As for replacing the ramp textures, remember that AFCAD uses the default FS9 textures to create an "appearance" of invisible airdrome data ATC needs to receive, launch and park aircraft.  The textures presented have a "0" layer value; any texture not available to/not used by AFCAD will have a higher layer value and override the AFCAD display wherever that texture is used.  Any taxi lines in that area will still be there for ATC to use, but will not be visible in the scenery.

For terrain replacement, if you use the default textures then the AFCAD display will be visible, too.  Generally, I use the default terrain -- saves me from having to completely rework the replacement terrain with taxi lines and ramp textures that match the part of the AFCAD that is visible.  You CAN replace the terrain with just about anything you want, but it's a more complicated process.  Because of his demonstrated skill and proficiency, I would refer you to TCY for that process; he's LIGHT YEARS ahead of me in that area.

(Decided to put the tutorial up in the Tutorials section here before uploading the file; will be typing it in a few minutes from now.  Will come back and give you the link when it's done.)

Links are in my most recent topic, this forum area.  

Edited by sarge, 30 March 2006 - 06:53 PM.

[PiP]

That looks better, I allways do what the real airport has.

Like in my EGNL rework project.



If you got to LIRF the centre runway has a hold short line to far from the runway so AI waits intull it times out and dissapears.

[gsnde]

Sarge,

That's just me being a not so fluent English speaker. Let's put it this way: if you say that you like it better, than I know it is better, and therefore like it better myself.

I have found a mix of AFCAD and SBuilder I am now very satisfied with. The building structure is completed, taxiway signs are all placed. There are still some days to fine tune things.

I would like to ask you if you would do me the favour and test the airbase once I declare it ready. Your Aardvark might find it a convenient place to start from Seriously, I would be pleased if you could take the time.

PiP,

I agree and feel the same. Right now I am learning the basics, and hope to get better soon.

Cheers,
Martin