17 replies to this topic

[gsnde]

Hi all,

I noticed a considerable hit in fps when I place my perimeter security fence. I am using one from FinneyGround, provided with Rwy12.  It is the only one that I know of which does not look like a garden fence.

The reduction in fps is close to 9. Granted, my airport is large and the fence consists of ca. 1300 sections.

So my questions are:

• is that normal and has to be accepted?
  
• Can you recommend another fence with less impact?
  
• When placing old API macros there was the option to define up to which distance an objejct would be visisble. Is there something alike with new objects?

Thanks and cheers,
Martin

[shagster22]

I have used those fences I beleive,
But now I use gmax and photoshop to make costom fences and textures; I can make the poly count lower by having a costom shape I beleive, so far it has been working fine. I don't think a fence should take that many FRs, considering if you want to add other objects. But if you do not want to use gmax, then It'll be harder to get good FRs in my opinion.

[gsnde]

That makes sense. My problem is that I am still fighting my way into the bunch of scenery design tools and have not yet started to play with GMax. After a first look into its friendly user interface I have decided that right now GMax would be an overkill for me

And there are no freely available GMax fences that I know of.

Martin

[IBtheSarge]

gsnde, on Apr 11 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

I noticed a considerable hit in fps when I place my perimeter security fence. I am using one from FinneyGround, provided with Rwy12.  It is the only one that I know of which does not look like a garden fence.
The reduction in fps is close to 9. Granted, my airport is large and the fence consists of ca. 1300 sections.
So my questions are:

is that normal and has to be accepted?

Yep, unfortunately that many copies of an object is gonna push the polygon count sky high (figure if one fence section is 2 polygons, then you're forcing FS9 to come up with system resources for 2600 polygons just to display the fence, not including polgyon count for any other objects you have in the scenery).

gsnde, on Apr 11 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

Can you recommend another fence with less impact?

I make my own, customized to the exact length.  In FSDS3, make a box 10 ft wide, 6 ft high, and 0.12 ft deep.  Switch to poly mode and delete the left, right, top and bottom polygons leaving just the front and back.  Texturize the remaining two polygons with a fence texture, save, then export as MDL.  2 polygons.  If you need a run 1300 ft long, then change the width to 1300 ft and do the same steps -- still 2 polygons.

gsnde, on Apr 11 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

When placing old API macros there was the option to define up to which distance an objejct would be visisble. Is there something alike with new objects?

Not that you can adjust unless you are also the designer of the object.  In FSDS3, it's a conditional pre-set where you set the distance from the aircraft at which the object will appear.  There's no way to make the adjustment once the object has been exported as an MDL.

[TechnicolorYawn]

Has anyone managed to make a convincing chain-link fence that looks good up close as well as at a distance? I can do one or the other, but not both.

[IBtheSarge]

TechnicolorYawn, on Apr 11 2006, 01:32 PM, said:

Has anyone managed to make a convincing chain-link fence that looks good up close as well as at a distance? I can do one or the other, but not both.

There was one (I'm not ABSOLUTELY sure of the designer, but the name Frank Betts keeps coming to the forefront).  Problem was, it was API, came in 10 ft sections, and each section was 42 polygons (two 16-sided poles with top and bottom [18 x 2] and a 6-sided box in between, total=42).  With a little massaging to eliminate unnecessary polygons, it could have probably been done at 20 polygons using the same structural technique.  But if you have to place 100 sections to make your fenceline, that's still gonna be 2000 polygons (a passable AI aircraft) just for the fence in the scenery.

Looked absolutely FANTASTIC ... but at 40 polygons per section, kina hard to fence anything of any reasonable size without slaughtering the framerates.  On the other hand, there a few framerate-friendly fences (mine included) but they're not designed for close-up inspection.  In fact, I turn crash detection on for the fencelines so you can't get up close to inspect the details.  

Edited by sarge, 11 April 2006 - 01:03 PM.

[Skydvdan]

If it's that many poly's then what about making it a library object.  Then it would just mirror the original wouldn't it?

Edited by Skydvdan, 11 April 2006 - 02:56 PM.

[TechnicolorYawn]

Its more the texture I need, rather than the actual polygons - I'd rather model it myself than use someone else's macros.

I still havent found a way of making the texture look stupid once you get further than 100m or so away.

[IBtheSarge]

Skydvdan, on Apr 11 2006, 03:55 PM, said:

If it's that many poly's then what about making it a library object.  Then it would just mirror the original wouldn't it?

That would be the smart way to go; but to put API objects into a library file, you need both the .api and .sca versions of the object and most designers don't even export as .sca, let alone provide it in the package you donwload.  If you make them yourself, you can export in both formats and then make the LibObj file.

Edited by sarge, 12 April 2006 - 12:10 AM.

[IBtheSarge]

TechnicolorYawn, on Apr 11 2006, 04:24 PM, said:

Its more the texture I need, rather than the actual polygons - I'd rather model it myself than use someone else's macros.

I still havent found a way of making the texture look stupid once you get further than 100m or so away.

   You and me, TCY.      I've got two chainlink texures that I use, one uses lime-green as the alpha channel and the other uses black as the alpha channel.  Be more than happy to send them to you, but -- like I said -- they aren't for close-up inspection.  I don't think they'd be much improvement over anything you have right now, though.

I'm going through a PSP tutorial on making different textures for different applications; maybe I'll pick up something in there and produce a better fence texture.

[shagster22]

I've made and tested my own tileable chain link fence, and it works all right. Up close and from a medium distance i think it looks great, but as expected, when far away youll have that effect.

To the best of my knowledge it isnt dependant on the texture: if its a "fine" texture (small parts and alpha's, basically a fence), then itll start doing that blending inevitably.

I would again resort to LOD's with different textures applied per LOD. Mipmaps might be able to blur the fence, making it simple, but no funky mixing. But again, that might also depend on your FS mipmap settings.

For now I'm not too worried about it as i think the fences are for close up not far off. Anyways, if somebody does find a way to solve it, I'm still all ears   !

[IBtheSarge]

Hey, after reading shagster22's last post, he may have given us the solution.

Make the fence and texturize it for "good up close" then do a conditional pre-set so that particular fence appears between x and y distance from the aircraft (i.e., 0 to 300 ft, or 0 to 100m).  Without leaving GMAX (or FSDS3), copy/paste the object onto itself but do not join/snap the two fences together, change the texture to the "good at a distance" texture and do a conditional pre-set so that fence shows up between y+1 and w distance from the aircraft (i.e., 301 to 10,000 ft, or 100.1 to 3,048m).  Save/compile as a single MDL object.

At 10,000 ft (3,048m) from the object FS9 will display the "good at a distance" fence and, as you get to 300 ft (100m) it will change to the "good up close" fence.

Whaddaya think?

[TechnicolorYawn]

I was thinking of using LODs, but the trouble with fences is that (especially at airports) they tend to be several miles long. So while you are a couple of metres away from one end (requiring the close LOD be displayed), you are a good half mile from the other end, which really needs the far LOD displaying. I could chop it into sections, but its going to be *very* difficult to get them to like up properly if I place them all with XML.

Edited by TechnicolorYawn, 12 April 2006 - 01:31 AM.

[gsnde]

Quote

but its going to be *very* difficult to get them to like up properly if I place them all with XML.

TCY, for this challenge I know the answer    Check out LOM (Library Object Manager) from Jon Masterson (LOM homepage).

I have the absolute pleasure to beta test this tool for Jon and one of the many parts that make it unique is a fencing tool. You define the object, point A and B, and then the object is aligned that lign with the option to scale it down the way so that it fit between the points.

Without that tool my base would have never seen a perimeter fence  

There are many more outstandig options in this program, and I rate it as high as AFCAD and Sbuilder already.

I am currently writing a review which I will place here as soon as it is ready.

Cheers,
Martin

[Skydvdan]

sarge, on Apr 11 2006, 08:18 PM, said:

You and me, TCY.      I've got two chainlink texures that I use, one uses lime-green as the alpha channel and the other uses black as the alpha channel.  

Sarge,
What is the difference between the green and black alpha's?

[IBtheSarge]

Skydvdan, on Apr 12 2006, 11:31 AM, said:

sarge, on Apr 11 2006, 08:18 PM, said:

You and me, TCY.      I've got two chainlink texures that I use, one uses lime-green as the alpha channel and the other uses black as the alpha channel. 

Sarge,
What is the difference between the green and black alpha's?

Personal preference.  You can use any color as the tranparent color .... just be careful that you don't have that particular color on something that you DON'T want to be transparent.

[Skydvdan]

So basically the green is used for an area that already has black in it?  That way all the black areas don't disappear where you don't want them to.

[IBtheSarge]

Skydvdan, on Apr 12 2006, 04:05 PM, said:

So basically the green is used for an area that already has black in it?  That way all the black areas don't disappear where you don't want them to.

Yep