79 replies to this topic

[Heimi77]

Amendment

davie18, on Jan 11 2012, 09:27 PM, said:

Mentioning something like helicopters as being a positive is almost clutching at straws imo. It's just something I would have expected to be in it anyway when it was first announced.

Yes, same for me.
But in all posts in all forums about MS Flight everybody is taking about how bad Flight is and that it is a game without all the nice things we had in MSFS versions before.

And the first impressions mediated by all the videos and screens released by MS lead to the impression to most people that it is an arcade game only without a link to a simulator.

I think thats not true.
And thats the reason i made this thread- for all people with hope and positive attitude.

Nevertheless I agree that it will be not as good as FS2004,FSX were. From a simulator point of view in terms of complexity and realism.

But at least it will be a kind of simulator with some novelties/improvements in any way.

[alainneedle1]

-Dexter, on Jan 11 2012, 11:47 PM, said:

Please do us all a favor and stop making these assumption "fact" threads.

Dexter old friend, do you remember some of the post I wrote and the post you wrote because of mine before 01/04/2012......I said that Flight was based on FSX, DX10, pay as you go, no free addons, no backward compatibility +++ so was I right or was I right about my assumptions? On another forum one of my sources told on himself....now, should I "speculate" or make more assumptions again about what Flight will be in 8 to 12 months?

Since you now know that Flight started with FSX can you tell me were the rest of the world is, do you think MS deleted it just to keep Hawaii?

Since Flight is still in beta stage is it possible that for now MS is just showing us the game part, like the game part you have in FSX, remember, we have a game part in FSX with challenges and stuff.

Since you probably read other forums (assumptions on my part) you probably already know that some developers like Orbx were working with MS, so ask yourself this, do you think that all the developers involved with Flight were in for Hawaii only, I mean how many developers does it take to cover Hawaii with their sceneries, or how many of them does it take to make all the airports on the big Island...and after that what, do you think that PMG was talking with MS to make a 737 to fly around Hawaii main Island only?

So think about it and lets talk again soon.

[-Dexter]

alainneedle1, on Jan 15 2012, 05:59 PM, said:

Dexter old friend, do you remember some of the post I wrote and the post you wrote because of mine before 01/04/2012......I said that Flight was based on FSX, DX10, pay as you go, no free addons, no backward compatibility +++ so was I right or was I right about my assumptions? On another forum one of my sources told on himself....now, should I "speculate" or make more assumptions again about what Flight will be in 8 to 12 months?

You seem like a pretentious "inside source". Your "sources" are thus far unfounded and all of your "assumptions" are largely sweeping generalizations.

I must be such a meanie wanting evidence to support "facts" about Flight.

Edited by -Dexter, 15 January 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[_BD6_]

alainneedle1, on Jan 15 2012, 05:59 PM, said:

Dexter old friend, do you remember some of the post I wrote and the post you wrote because of mine before 01/04/2012......I said that Flight was based on FSX, DX10, pay as you go, no free addons, no backward compatibility +++ so was I right or was I right about my assumptions? On another forum one of my sources told on himself....now, should I "speculate" or make more assumptions again about what Flight will be in 8 to 12 months?

Since you now know that Flight started with FSX can you tell me were the rest of the world is, do you think MS deleted it just to keep Hawaii?

Since Flight is still in beta stage is it possible that for now MS is just showing us the game part, like the game part you have in FSX, remember, we have a game part in FSX with challenges and stuff.

Since you probably read other forums (assumptions on my part) you probably already know that some developers like Orbx were working with MS, so ask yourself this, do you think that all the developers involved with Flight were in for Hawaii only, I mean how many developers does it take to cover Hawaii with their sceneries, or how many of them does it take to make all the airports on the big Island...and after that what, do you think that PMG was talking with MS to make a 737 to fly around Hawaii main Island only?

So think about it and lets talk again soon.

Huh? PMDG and Orbx has stated themselves they're disappointed in the direction Flight went, and are not working with Microsoft at all now. Unless I'm behind news..

[-Dexter]

bl00mfield, on Jan 15 2012, 10:20 PM, said:

Huh? PMDG and Orbx has stated themselves they're disappointed in the direction Flight went, and are not working with Microsoft at all now. Unless I'm behind news..

Be careful, bl00mfield, his super top secret "inside source" is going to prove you wrong!

[_BD6_]

oh noes.

[alainneedle1]

Alright, you guys need proof.....here, JV told on himself, he was one of my sources I've never said who were my sources and never will unless they do it themself, what JV told me about Flight 16 months ago is about 5% of what I know...  

http://forum.avsim.n...out-of-the-bag/

So coming from one of the horse's mouth it's a little harder to make fun of me now is in it?

That is true that Orbx and PMG have made statement about not supporting Flight for now, so what, that's the end of Flight?? My point was to tell you that Flight is not just what you are seeing, there is more 3PD developers involved, Flight1, FlyTampa, just to take these two, that does not mean we will see their work in Flight as it does not mean we will not.

Look at the vid. and the screenshots MS released, does it look just like a game, how many plane do you see, there is a Maule right....have you seen one in the Flight beta?

I'm not here to say I told you so (well I kinda did...) naaa seriously, look like I can't win no matter what, before 01/04/2012 I was a bull$hi**er and now you still making fun at what I have t say after what I said before happen to be true....

I'm just trying to raise your hope a little here by dropping clues, and the only thing you can come up with is... "Be careful, bl00mfield, his super top secret "inside source" is going to prove you wrong!" ....beats me.

Let me explain what I said a little better, Orbx, to take this one, has been working with MS on Flight for about 2 years, now, as you all know they are pi$$ed at MS...but do you think that orbx worked with MS for two years just to do Hawaii?

My question was "How many developers does it take to cover Hawaii with their sceneries or airport?" so since you already know that severals developers were and are involved with Flight do you really think that for two years Hawaii was the only place they were "gonna" make sceneries for?

This is not the end of it....do what ever you want with what I'm saying, make fun of it again or think about it but trust me on this one MS did not work on Flight that long just for an arcade game, the final result may just come in one or two years (speculation on the time frame) from now but Flight is not just a game....

Edit: Trust me there is more to the story about the pi$$ed developers, do not believe everything you read......

Edited by alainneedle1, 15 January 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[_BD6_]

May be the case - but the way they're marketing it really doesn't help.

[alainneedle1]

bl00mfield, on Jan 15 2012, 11:27 PM, said:

May be the case - but the way they're marketing it really doesn't help.

Well, before marketing something (like a full simulator) you need to make sure you have sealed a deal with all the party involved welling to work with you, don't you think?

[jcovelli]

all the third party developers have said that they got shut out of flight before they could really do anything with or for it. and YES there is more to flight... too bad u have to pay for all of it and wait for microsoft to release it whenever they feel like it.. right now, it looks like they are going to be busy making those aerochache things.....

a little side note: i really hope the performance of that icon plane is way off in flight. i can't imagine real people flying around in that thing... only drivers license required.... all constantly on the edge of a stall. the thing also has a max climb rate of like 300 fpm... that's real useful in those emergency situations  

Edited by jcovelli, 16 January 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[THBatMan8]

alainneedle1, on Jan 15 2012, 09:34 PM, said:

Well, before marketing something (like a full simulator) you need to make sure you have sealed a deal with all the party involved welling to work with you, don't you think?

Somehow I doubt MS is making a full simulator as I don't know of too many 16-year-olds that could afford it. MS wouldn't profit off of it. That's why they always stuck with 'dumbed down' simulators so that they would appeal to the general public. If Joe-six-pack-of-beer-classic-hillbilly decided he wanted to fly a 747, he would never be able to fly anything the likes of PMDG.

[THBatMan8]

alainneedle1, on Jan 15 2012, 09:02 PM, said:

Alright, you guys need proof.....here, JV told on himself, he was one of my sources I've never said who were my sources and never will unless they do it themself, what JV told me about Flight 16 months ago is about 5% of what I know...  

http://forum.avsim.n...out-of-the-bag/

So coming from one of the horse's mouth it's a little harder to make fun of me now is in it?

That is true that Orbx and PMG have made statement about not supporting Flight for now, so what, that's the end of Flight?? My point was to tell you that Flight is not just what you are seeing, there is more 3PD developers involved, Flight1, FlyTampa, just to take these two, that does not mean we will see their work in Flight as it does not mean we will not.

Look at the vid. and the screenshots MS released, does it look just like a game, how many plane do you see, there is a Maule right....have you seen one in the Flight beta?

I'm not here to say I told you so (well I kinda did...) naaa seriously, look like I can't win no matter what, before 01/04/2012 I was a bull$hi**er and now you still making fun at what I have t say after what I said before happen to be true....

I'm just trying to raise your hope a little here by dropping clues, and the only thing you can come up with is... "Be careful, bl00mfield, his super top secret "inside source" is going to prove you wrong!" ....beats me.

Let me explain what I said a little better, Orbx, to take this one, has been working with MS on Flight for about 2 years, now, as you all know they are pi$$ed at MS...but do you think that orbx worked with MS for two years just to do Hawaii?

My question was "How many developers does it take to cover Hawaii with their sceneries or airport?" so since you already know that severals developers were and are involved with Flight do you really think that for two years Hawaii was the only place they were "gonna" make sceneries for?

This is not the end of it....do what ever you want with what I'm saying, make fun of it again or think about it but trust me on this one MS did not work on Flight that long just for an arcade game, the final result may just come in one or two years (speculation on the time frame) from now but Flight is not just a game....

Edit: Trust me there is more to the story about the pi$$ed developers, do not believe everything you read......

The developers you listed specialize in scenery. Scenery is great to have, don't get me wrong; but that is only PART of a simming experience. What about the airplanes? Air Traffic Control? etc. etc. What you type sounds good, but in my experience if it sounds to good to be true then it is. A sim like you describe is not going to be cheap by any means, and in no way will it be completed in the timeline MS says flight will be completed. That's unrealistic. That type of sim would take years to complete. Not to mention, there isn't a single computer out in the market that would handle that kind of sim.

Hypothetically speaking, lets say MS is building this sim, and will release it soon. What do you think the price will be? I'll tell you one thing: the price of said simulator is going to kill the community.

Also, what about training? A simulator like that will require 1000's of 1000's of pages of POH's, FCOM's, etc which most of which is SSI. Not to mention, your average simmer doesn't want to spend a month in ground school before they can even fly a Cessna.

Bottom line: It would be nice, but it just isn't going to happen. MS doesn't have the resources. Even if they did, they wouldn't bother making a sim this extravagant if it wouldn't make them a profit.

Edited by THBatMan8, 16 January 2012 - 02:18 AM.

[alainneedle1]

jcovelli, on Jan 15 2012, 11:54 PM, said:

all the third party developers have said that they got shut out of flight before they could really do anything with or for it. and YES there is more to flight... too bad u have to pay for all of it and wait for microsoft to release it whenever they feel like it.. right now, it looks like they are going to be busy making those aerochache things.....

a little side note: i really hope the performance of that icon plane is way off in flight. i can't imagine real people flying around in that thing... only drivers license required.... all constantly on the edge of a stall. the thing also has a max climb rate of like 300 fpm... that's real useful in those emergency situations  

Some developers have said that MS closed the door on them, NOT all said that. Flight is a FREE download.


You need a sport pilot license for the Icon 5 ($5,000.00). http://www.sportpilo...t/how_much.html

[alainneedle1]

THBatMan8, on Jan 16 2012, 02:14 AM, said:

The developers you listed specialize in scenery. Scenery is great to have, don't get me wrong; but that is only PART of a simming experience. What about the airplanes? Air Traffic Control? etc. etc. What you type sounds good, but in my experience if it sounds to good to be true then it is. A sim like you describe is not going to be cheap by any means, and in no way will it be completed in the timeline MS says flight will be completed. That's unrealistic. That type of sim would take years to complete. Not to mention, there isn't a single computer out in the market that would handle that kind of sim.

Hypothetically speaking, lets say MS is building this sim, and will release it soon. What do you think the price will be? I'll tell you one thing: the price of said simulator is going to kill the community.

Also, what about training? A simulator like that will require 1000's of 1000's of pages of POH's, FCOM's, etc which most of which is SSI. Not to mention, your average simmer doesn't want to spend a month in ground school before they can even fly a Cessna.

Bottom line: It would be nice, but it just isn't going to happen. MS doesn't have the resources. Even if they did, they wouldn't bother making a sim this extravagant if it wouldn't make them a profit.

They are not making a brand new out of the box simulator, that will take at least 4 > 5 years, they started with FSX, fixing bugs.

Now peoples are welling to buy sceneries or plane from 3PD at $25.00 > $65.00 a pop (and sometimes more) to cover places they fly over, what's the difference with Flight will you ask?....about if you can buy a plane or sceneries from the market store for $5.99 (speculation on the price) , or you want to add the ATC or something else for $2.99, see that's the beauty of it, if you'r a bush flyer you don't need a complex plane so you don't have to have one in your hangar, if you are an experience pilot (airliner) you may be able to choose what plane you want, 747...737....about buying sceneries you fly over, I don't fly over Africa or Russia, so if I have the possibility to buy only where I fly over.... I'm in.

Like I said long time ago, MS is doing that mainly to erase piracy (the best they can) so it's not a bad thing to have a market store, buying directly from them or a 3PD developer....who care really.

Now, let me ask you this, who need that kind of computer to play an arcade game, below are the spec. from MS...

It was also one of our goals to ensure that the game can run well with high settings on hardware that is attainable today. Based on our testing of core scenarios, the game runs smoothly on high graphics settings with the following hardware specifications:

•CPU: Intel® Core™ i7 960 @ 3.20GHz, AMD® Phenom™ II X6 1100T 3.3 GHz or better
•GPU: ATI Radeon™ HD 5870, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560 or better
•HD: 10 GB Hard Drive space
•OS: Windows 7 64-bit
•RAM: 6GB

[_NW_]

alainneedle1, on Jan 16 2012, 08:22 AM, said:

Like I said long time ago, MS is doing that mainly to erase piracy (the best they can) so it's not a bad thing to have a market store, buying directly from them or a 3PD developer....who care really.

Wrong..  they don't give a flip about piracy. They're doing it for one reason.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Jonay]

alainneedle1, on Jan 16 2012, 02:22 PM, said:

It was also one of our goals to ensure that the game can run well with high settings...

Are you on the dev team?

[ChaoticBeauty]

Jonay, on Jan 16 2012, 04:39 PM, said:

Are you on the dev team?

That explains a lot.

[jcovelli]

alainneedle1, on Jan 16 2012, 09:47 AM, said:

Some developers have said that MS closed the door on them, NOT all said that. Flight is a FREE download.
You need a sport pilot license for the Icon 5 ($5,000.00). http://www.sportpilo...t/how_much.html

yeah i see that now... they changed it. when the icon first made it's appearance it was supposed to 'revolutionize' flight and make it 'accessible' to anyone with a drivers license. it was even featured in a discovery channel show about future transportation where they also said the same thing.


one more negative thing that just came up: played the demo for 1.5 hours yesterday.... then a few hours later, when starting flight i get a message 'flight has detected a corrupt install and will now close'. of course then it closes. did absolutly nothing with my computer from the time it worked to the time it didn't.. and since there is no installer or option to repair.. i guess i would have to download the whole thing again?... that's not gonna happen.

[alainneedle1]

@ NWilkinson, go and ask 3PD how much money they are losing to piracy, that's why MS is Having a market store, downloadable DLC only. The other way MS will make money is to have all DLC sold in the store, no more 3PD store for them to sale addons for Flight, if they want to sell them they have to go MS's way, I also said that long time ago, that is why Aerosoft is not to hot about Flight as they are a publishing house.

@ Jonay, no I'm not on the dev. team, my point was just to show that if Flight was an arcade game from the beginning the minimum PC requirement for the game from MS will do just fine, below are the minimum requirements.

Quote from MS:

We've found the game runs well on low graphics settings with hardware meeting the following specifications:

•CPU: Dual Core 2.0 GHz
•GPU: 256 MB card capable of shader 3.0 (DX 9.0c compliant)
•HD: 10 GB Hard Drive space
•OS: WinXP SP3
•RAM: 2.0GB

Again, who need a computer with the specs. as seen below to play an arcade game, so do you think that there will be more to Flight?

•CPU: Intel® Core™ i7 960 @ 3.20GHz, AMD® Phenom™ II X6 1100T 3.3 GHz or better
•GPU: ATI Radeon™ HD 5870, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560 or better
•HD: 10 GB Hard Drive space
•OS: Windows 7 64-bit
•RAM: 6GB

For us hardcore simmers it will not happen tomorrow, just beta testing the available DLC will take time, now that you know a market store is there and since Flight is a free download do you think MS will generate income by keeping the store empty?

[alainneedle1]

jcovelli, on Jan 16 2012, 11:31 AM, said:

one more negative thing that just came up: played the demo for 1.5 hours yesterday.... then a few hours later, when starting flight i get a message 'flight has detected a corrupt install and will now close'. of course then it closes. did absolutly nothing with my computer from the time it worked to the time it didn't.. and since there is no installer or option to repair.. i guess i would have to download the whole thing again?... that's not gonna happen.

Keep in mind that Flight is still in beta testing, bugs will show up from time to time, just report them

@ Nwilkinson, http://cerasimaircraft.com/

Edited by alainneedle1, 16 January 2012 - 11:56 AM.