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Killin' Time


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#1 IBtheSarge

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 02:01 PM

Well, I've tried several times; but with Marne watching over me like a prison warden, it's useless to try to jump back into finishing KPSM.  I do get enough time to do some objects, though; and just thought I'd post these for informational purposes:

Civilian airport fire station
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Military airbase fire station
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ILS transmitter with tower & dishes, and VOR/DME (can also be used for TACAN)
Posted Image   Posted Image
Airport terminal for small or medium sized airport
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Military barracks arranged in a quadrangle
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Main military Civil Engineering compound
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Security Police armory, headquarters, barracks and operations building
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Base Operations and Control Tower
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Section of ARMCO aircraft revetment
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And (finally  :D ) a Wing Headquarters or Center command facility on a large airbase
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All are EXTREMELY framerate friendly; for instance, the Security Police compound is a whopping 40 polygons TOTAL (including the fencing and ground surface polygon), and the CE compound is only 59 polygons (also including the fencing and ground surface).

#2 Cocoa Flyer

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 02:35 PM

Holy smokes, you made that?! *gasps*

#3 IBtheSarge

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 03:01 PM

The_Unknown, on Oct 15 2005, 03:35 PM, said:

Holy smokes, you made that?! *gasps*
Uh-huh.  I wish my therapist would let me sit up longer so I can start placing some of those in my KPSM scenery; but she's a Therapist Nazi and will not permit me to sit any longer than 3 - 5 hrs at a time.  That's just not enough to do a scenery; it's enough to do the objects that I want, or may need later.

All done with FSDS2.  The textures are a mix of the default FS9 textures, Nova & Nova Gold textures, textures of other designers that I have permission to use (the ILS transmitter, in particular, by Kern Pegg), and some of my own including some photos that have been converted to DXT formats and (in some cases) extended bitmaps.

Also have an array of taxi-in (yes, the aircraft can taxi right inside) maintenance hangars for fighters, bombers, large military transports, small/medium military transports, and helicopters.  I left out the NDB transmitter site that I also made.  Even have some buildings specified as Deputy Commander for Maintenance facility, Deputy Commander for Operations facility, and a Combat Support Group headquarters and staff facility.

Slowly (but surely) refining the technique to the point where I'll be able to build an entire airbase with customized objects (including chainlink fencing), and come in UNDER 750 polygons for the entire scenery.

#4 TechnicolorYawn

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 03:53 PM

sarge, on Oct 15 2005, 08:01 PM, said:

and come in UNDER 750 polygons for the entire scenery.
lol.. I dread to think how many polys LPMA is made up of... luckily its a very small airfield with only a few planes parked at any time.

#5 IBtheSarge

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 11:32 PM

TechnicolorYawn, on Oct 15 2005, 04:53 PM, said:

sarge, on Oct 15 2005, 08:01 PM, said:

and come in UNDER 750 polygons for the entire scenery.
lol.. I dread to think how many polys LPMA is made up of... luckily its a very small airfield with only a few planes parked at any time.
When you get ready to tackle something bigger, TCY, let me know -- I'll do the objects for you (and even place them, if you wish).  I'm firmly convinced that ANY scenery can be made framerate friendly without sacrificing accuracy or detail.

I did manage to get enough time to do the research on Reese AFB TX (my very first USAF assignment after basic training and technical school in 1966); it was the home of the 3500th Pilot Training Wing (T-37's & T-38's) for upgrade pilot training, under Air Training Command.  Using Google Earth, I can zoom in on what's still there and use line measurement to get an approximation of the size of the buildings.  (Textures I'll have to guess at and use whatever I can remember.)

Edited by sarge, 15 October 2005 - 11:34 PM.


#6 IBtheSarge

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 11:47 PM

Ah, what the heck -- Marne's sleeping, so why not?   LOL

NDB transmitter
Posted Image

Combat Support Group headquarters
Posted Image

Bomber Maintenance Hangar, Taxi-In
Tested with B-1, B-2, B-52; if centered on an AFCAD parking spot, ATC can route your bomber to the hangar instead of a regular spot, and you can select the spot as the start location, using Shift-P to back out and turn prior to taxiing for take-off:
Posted Image

Helicopter Maintenance Hangar, Taxi In
Tested with UH-60; can hand two side-by-side with rotors fully deployed
Posted Image

Civilian Warehouse for placement adjacent to airport cargo ramp
Single warehouse is 200'w x 100'd x 50'h; also available in 400'w and 600'w; single warehouse is only 8 polygons
Posted Image

#7 ibrahim

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 06:01 AM

Waooo  :D nice sarge... when we can download this ???

#8 IBtheSarge

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 10:17 AM

ibrahim, on Oct 16 2005, 07:01 AM, said:

Waooo  :D nice sarge... when we can download this ???
You want an objects package? or are you talking about scenery with those objects in them?

#9 ibrahim

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 10:57 AM

both..  :D

#10 IBtheSarge

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 03:13 PM

ibrahim, on Oct 16 2005, 11:57 AM, said:

both..  :D
LOL!!!!  Okay; as soon as I finish up the ones on the drawing board, I'll put together two packages of framerate friendly objects -- one for civilian airports and one for military airbases.  Each package will have .api, .sca, and .mdl formats for each object, with the textures for each.

My KPSM (Pease AFB NH), KPBG (Plattsburg AFB NY) and KLIZ (Loring AFB ME) will have those objects in them, as soon as I'm cleared for longer periods of "sit time" and get back to the finishing them off.

#11 ras78

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 04:21 AM

Hey! nice work, what about modelling the ground? can you give me some tips? thanks!!

#12 IBtheSarge

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 01:09 PM

ras78, on Oct 17 2005, 05:21 AM, said:

Hey! nice work, what about modelling the ground? can you give me some tips? thanks!!
The ground in my objects is a simple 4-sided polygon, texturized on top with the FS9 terrain textures (or any other terrain texture that I choose), then the individual objects placed and joined to the polygon.

If you're talking about altering the LWM, TCY or PiP or a few others can help you out with that kind of software.

#13 Mul.

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 02:01 PM

good work :D

Looking forward to getting my hands on your next scenery package.

Mul

#14 N376JA

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 02:34 PM

Sarge If You Would Please PM Me I Would Like To Ask You A Question.

#15 Greeney

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 05:12 PM

Great work sarge man!!!!!

#16 onthescopes

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 06:11 PM

N376JA, on Oct 17 2005, 02:34 PM, said:

Sarge If You Would Please PM Me I Would Like To Ask You A Question.
You could just PM him  :D

#17 TONYH21

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 08:25 PM

Amazing job Sarge, keep up the great work!!!!

#18 Ice Man

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 09:56 PM

Very good. The problem I have when I attempt to make a building is that:

1. SceneGenX is only a top down view, so I don't know how the building will look and if the textures are stretched or not.
2. FSSC is only really good for FS2002 and below but when I do try to use it it always says there is an error loading textures.
3. I haven't found a program that lets you build buildings with the standard height that FS buildings are. I have to make a building and hope it's tall enough, there is no program that builds buildings by the number of standard-sized levels, as buildings seem to be built actually in FS.
4. GMAX never does textures right, they always end up not being able to be dragged and cut into the appropriate positions.
5. All the programs make you have to come up with a central location, which can mean a lot of trial and error to place a building.
6. Nothing is really WYSIWYG. GMAX is the only one so far that I've seen that actually shows buildings in 3D, but you have to know a central location.
7. Nothing lets you change the default buildings. An example of this would be: I want to change the texture on Terminal B at KSMF but I can't.
8. All programs stretch a texture too mush, there is now program that senses when a texture is getting too distorted an repeats it automatically.

Is FSDS2 better? Does it provide an answer to at least a few of my problems? And, most importantly, does it cost anything?

Also, I noticed that you like to do military base sceneries. I was wondering if you had enough information to do the now-closed McClellan AFB in Sacramento, CA.

Edited by Ice Man, 18 October 2005 - 09:58 PM.


#19 TechnicolorYawn

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 01:46 AM

1. Use GMax.
2. Use Gmax
3. No buildings are 'standard height'. Gmax also lets you specify whether you want your units in meters, feets etc so you can see how tall its going to be.
4. Never had this problem.
5. The best way to place Gmax objects is to use the top-down view in FS and slew your aircraft to the right position, and just make a note of the latitude and longtitude of the plane.
6. --
7. You can't change any object in FS once its been compiled, you can only create brand new ones - this goes for aircraft, buildings, autogen objects. The only exception is AFCAD data.
8. Just use your eyes. If you see a texture is too distorted, then make a new one with different resolutions.

#20 IBtheSarge

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:09 AM

It's almost 03:00 (EDT) but I'll give your problems a go ...  :D

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

1. SceneGenX is only a top down view, so I don't know how the building will look and if the textures are stretched or not.
FSDS2 presents four windows during construction (similar to GMAX); the upper right window allows you to see the object as you progress and rotate it to see all around, top down, or from the bottom up.  The zoom in/out feature lets you get in as close as you want to see how the textures are.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

2. FSSC is only really good for FS2002 and below but when I do try to use it it always says there is an error loading textures.
Before I started writing XML for exclusions and object placement, I used FSSC easily for FS2004, but I only used it to create flatten areas, exclusions, surface smoothing, and object placement.  Didn't like the way it created runways and taxiways; prefer AFCAD2 for the actual airport "build."

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

3. I haven't found a program that lets you build buildings with the standard height that FS buildings are. I have to make a building and hope it's tall enough, there is no program that builds buildings by the number of standard-sized levels, as buildings seem to be built actually in FS.
All of my buildings are in heights I determine (120'w x 75'd x 20'h, for example) and I've never had a problem with their presentation in the sceneries.  If you find that your building is a bit oversized when you place it, adjust the scale (normally 0.100000) downward in increments until it's the right size next to your airplane.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

4. GMAX never does textures right, they always end up not being able to be dragged and cut into the appropriate positions.
When applying the texture in FSDS2, you can specify interations on the x-axis (horizontal) and y-axis (vertical).  For instance, when I custom build chain link fences, I have a chain link texture that is perfect for 10'w x 6'h.  If I make a fence polygon that is 100'w, I set "10" for the x-axis adjustment in the texture selection window and FSDS2 puts the texture 10 times horizontally on that polygon.  No distortion that way.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

5. All the programs make you have to come up with a central location, which can mean a lot of trial and error to place a building.
Unfortunately, that's the way it is, regardless of the placement you choose.  When I write the XML placement, I have to know the point (lat/lon) on the airport where the center of the object is to be placed, and the heading.  Same in real-world when you build a house -- you have to know exactly where you're going to build it and which way the front door is going to face.  If you can find the lat/lon in AFCAD2 where you want the building to be, and the x-y-z axis have all been centered on the object you built, that's enough to get it almost exactly where you want it.  Sometimes I have to make one or two adjustments to the heading because of the MAGVAR at a particular airport, but that's about it.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

6. Nothing is really WYSIWYG. GMAX is the only one so far that I've seen that actually shows buildings in 3D, but you have to know a central location.
Are you talking about the "central location" where the building is going to appear at the airport? or the "central location" of the building you create?  There should be something on the GMAX toolbar to allow you to change the rotation of the axis and center it.  All you need to do then is find the lat/lon in AFCAD of the spot you want the building centered on and put it there.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

7. Nothing lets you change the default buildings. An example of this would be: I want to change the texture on Terminal B at KSMF but I can't.
Actually, you can; but you need the _SDK's (available on Microsoft's FS9 website) and a WHOLE lot of studying them to figure out how to call the particular object and which texture to remove and which texture to apply, another program that will decompile the BGL that FS9 uses to place the object, and then the bglcomp_SDK to recompile the raw XML data to a new BGL after you've changed the data.  Believe me, it isn't worth the effort; I looked into that and it's just so much easier to exclude the default object and build my own replacement object.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

8. All programs stretch a texture too mush, there is now program that senses when a texture is getting too distorted an repeats it automatically.
See above RE: chain link fence

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

Is FSDS2 better? Does it provide an answer to at least a few of my problems? And, most importantly, does it cost anything?
(1) To me, yes; but that's MY preference.  (2)  Yes; see above, and I hope some of that helped you.  (3)  Payware, from Abacus.

Ice Man, on Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM, said:

Also, I noticed that you like to do military base sceneries. I was wondering if you had enough information to do the now-closed McClellan AFB in Sacramento, CA.
Quite familiar with McClellan, the former ALC.   :)   I can get the current set-up at McClellan using Google Earth (even facility approximate measurements).  To "recreate" it, I would need some photos of the time-period -- pre-SEA? during SEA? immediately prior to closure?  My "knack" for military base sceneries stems from the fact that FS9 is a commercial/private flight simulator and very little detail has been put in for military bases unless they are joint-use bases.  Even then, military designated parking spots are non-existant in the default AFCADs.  I started out upgrading an AFCAD and wound up designing and placing the infrastructure for the bases, too.  Kinda carved a little niche for myself in the flight sim world ....

Anyway, hope some of this helped you a bit .... yes; FSDS2 is going to cost you some coins, but if you're REALLY serious about designing sceneries, it'll be a worthwhile investment.  For what it's worth, learning GMAX is HIGH on my agenda -- there are some things that GMAX is better suited for than FSDS2 or other scenery design programs.  Besides, no self-respecting mechanic has just ONE wrench in his toolbox, right?   :D

Edited by sarge, 19 October 2005 - 02:12 AM.