55 replies to this topic

[89-LX]

I have an idea for a few of the items I will use, but others, I need some recommendations. First off, this will mainly be a FS9 gaming system until I get a new video card. For set hardware, it will be ad follows:

Video card: 6800 Ultra PCI-E
Memory: GeIL PC8000 DDR2 2GB (1GB x 2)
PSU: Antec 500W SmartPower modular
Sound Card: Creative Audigy ZS2

Now where I need some help, is at the following:

Processor: It will be an intel, and I am leaning toward the E6600. Now I have been reading about the E8650, and it will cost $266 compared to the $220 price tag on the E6600. I plan on watercooling the machine to keep down on the noise, and to keep longativity of the hardware, and I plan to overclock a little bit. I am doing a VATSIM big event, so I need everything here by July 25th, which means it must be ordered by July 22nd. So which should I go with?

Motherboard: I am leaning toward an Asus P5 motherboard. I am unsure of I should go with the P5K or P5B. Then which subverson. I know the MB's are $120-$200 also. Should I stay with Asus, or go with another brand? My MSI gave my 2.5 long years of hardware and it just gave out, so thats why I need another one.

Harddrives: My current setup has 4 hard drives, 1 for the OS, 1 for FS, 1 for storage, and 1 for the programs like AIM and email. I want to condense it down, so I am buying a 500GB external for music and storage. 2 of the 4 above are SATA while the other two are older IDE setups. Should I just stick with the SATA, using the same setup, or should I get 2 new HD's and run them in RAID?

Looking forward to the replies. Everyone feel free to shoot off your opinions. I plan to upgrade to a DX10 card in a few months, when the price comes down and there is more3 competition on them, and when I upgrade to Vista. I will be running XP Pro for the time being.

[SwitchFX]

The E6600 is a great choice, on the 22nd of this month price cuts will come. Even better.

The graphics card you'll be using is the weak part, it's a factor.

I've hear great success with the P5 series. As with the Gigabyte 965 chipsets.

2 5 gigabyte should do it, RAID comes in many levels. So to invest in a good RAID controller card is a good choice.

As for water cooling it can get just as loud as fans. And if you're on that route expect to get a custom set up for it. 500 dollars or more should get you the ideal thing, but I'd go across that idea if I were you. I'd invest in a quality fan cooling kit. Water cooling is only needed if you're going to do some major overclocking, even with water you're still going to need fans. Those kits come with small radiators not big enough to cool down the liquid fast enough.

[89-LX]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 10 2007, 06:06 PM, said:

The E6600 is a great choice, on the 22nd of this month price cuts will come. Even better.

The graphics card you'll be using is the weak part, it's a factor.

I've hear great success with the P5 series. As with the Gigabyte 965 chipsets.

2 5 gigabyte should do it, RAID comes in many levels. So to invest in a good RAID controller card is a good choice.

As for water cooling it can get just as loud as fans. And if you're on that route expect to get a custom set up for it. 500 dollars or more should get you the ideal thing, but I'd go across that idea if I were you. I'd invest in a quality fan cooling kit. Water cooling is only needed if you're going to do some major overclocking, even with water you're still going to need fans. Those kits come with small radiators not big enough to cool down the liquid fast enough.

I know that the 6800 Ultra ia a bottleneck, but it won't be a huge bottleneck for FS9 at the moment. FSX yes, but I am waiting to use FSX till I go Vista/DX10.

As far as water cooling goes, I have it down to under $100 for my own built kit. And I don't wanna hear any "its going to be garbage" stuff. My friend owns a machine shop, so I have access to free material and the CNC machines to build anything I want, along with pump and radiators at dirt cheap prices due to the manufacturing business they will be purchased in. All the tubing and parts is top notch, as it has to be in the business as it goes to major companies like Ford and GM, along with products for the government such as NASA.

[SwitchFX]

It'll be a bottle neck to the system over all.

That's good to know about the water cooling, but the fact is I'm not comfortable in having water or coolant travel through a metal tube. But that's me I guess.

[89-LX]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 10 2007, 06:21 PM, said:

It'll be a bottle neck to the system over all.

That's good to know about the water cooling, but the fact is I'm not comfortable in having water or coolant travel through a metal tube. But that's me I guess.

Metal? I am referring to flexable plastic tubing used in hydrqaulic applications.

[SargeJr3]

Sounds like a fine system.  If you can spring for the 8650 why not?

See you at Cross the Pond

[iKettles]

Water Cooling will be just as loud (or even louder). I'd only get water cooling if I was going for extreme over clocking, and not caring about noise. I wouldn't get a kit either, I'd buy each part separately.

[Haysie]

Don't order it on the 22nd. Order it as early as you can, there's no way I'd leave it only the minimum to get here. Murphy's Law.

[89-LX]

Anyone else regarding the processor, motherboard and hardrives?

Also, I am at school watching A-10's and SR20's flying around in the computer lab.

[SwitchFX]

89-LX, on Jul 11 2007, 09:21 AM, said:

Anyone else regarding the processor, motherboard and hardrives?

Also, I am at school watching A-10's and SR20's flying around in the computer lab.

Yeah, I recall you want to go RAID, just which RAID level? And you'll want to get a high quality RAID controller card.

Edit: You're a lucky guy, note to last comment.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper, 11 July 2007 - 11:23 AM.

[89-LX]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 11 2007, 12:23 PM, said:

Yeah, I recall you want to go RAID, just which RAID level? And you'll want to get a high quality RAID controller card.

Edit: You're a lucky guy, note to last comment.

I'm not too familier with RAID honestly. What I am looking for is a great performing harddrive setup. I want FS on its own drive since I am running upwards of 30GB's for it.

[89-LX]

Also, I am looking at video cards now also. I am considering the ATI X1950 Crossfire (2 cards).

First off, how will the combo run:

CPU: E6600 or E6850
Motherboard: Asus P5B
Video card: aTI X1950 Crossfire
Memory: GeIL PC8000 DDR2 2GB (1GB x 2)
PSU: Antec 500W SmartPower modular
Sound Card: Creative Audigy ZS2

[Ceiling Cat]

I'm not sure investing in CrossFire configuration is worthy.. Two X1950Pro cost about 300$ and for that price you could buy a 8800GTS.

[SwitchFX]

Hi David,

Ok so I'll paste the following out of an article. I've only copied the parts that require 2 HD's as the others start with a 3 minimum.

Quote

# RAID 0: Striped Set (2 disks minimum) without parity. Provides improved performance and additional storage but no fault tolerance from disk errors or disk failure. Any disk failure destroys the array, which becomes more likely with more disks in the array. The reason a single disk failure destroys the entire array is because when data is written to a RAID 0 drive, the data is broken into "fragments". The number of fragments is dictated by the number of disks in the drive. Each of these fragments are written to their respective disks simultaneously on the same sector. This allows smaller sections of the entire chunk of data to be read off the drive in parallel, giving this type of arrangement huge bandwidth. When one sector on one of the disks fails, however, the corresponding sector on every other disk is rendered useless because part of the data is now corrupted. RAID 0 does not implement error checking so any error is unrecoverable. More disks in the drive means higher bandwidth, but greater risk of data loss.
# RAID 1: Mirrored Set (2 disks minimum) without parity. Provides fault tolerance from disk errors and single disk failure. Increased read performance occurs when using a multi-threaded operating system that supports split seeks, very small performance reduction when writing. Array continues to operate so long as at least one drive is functioning.

Now I noticed you went with X-Fire of 2 X1950's. If I were in your position I'd be inclined to get a DX 10 card. However, I would not go for the 8800 GTS 320 MB card. It's got a lot of issues with it's drivers. So stay away from it.

Even if you do choose to go ahead with the crossfire mode you're going to need a better PSU then what you've picked out.

This is a 600 Watt Seasonic http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817151030

From the last charts I've read and what Heiko sent me is nVidia is winning the video card race. So it might be wise to buy a nVidia rather than an ATi at this point.

[162db]

89-LX, on Jul 12 2007, 09:34 AM, said:

Also, I am looking at video cards now also. I am considering the ATI X1950 Crossfire (2 cards).

First off, how will the combo run:

CPU: E6600 or E6850
Motherboard: Asus P5B
Video card: aTI X1950 Crossfire
Memory: GeIL PC8000 DDR2 2GB (1GB x 2)
PSU: Antec 500W SmartPower modular
Sound Card: Creative Audigy ZS2

If you go with the E6850, I believe you will need a motherboard that will support its 1333mhz fsb. The P5B series only support 1066mhz fsb. I would stay away from modular power supplies because over time, the cables lose their connectivity  which results in increased resistance and I had witnessed that when I had a modular power supply, took me a while to figure out why some of my hdd's were losing power. The only modular power supplies that I won't think will have that problem are the ones from Hiper. If you're going to go with 2 graphics cards, then I would suggest 600 watts as bare minimum for the power supply but since you plan to overclock, I would shoot for 750-1000 watts. The PSU is the heart of a computer system, do not take the cheap route on it.

Another thing you may want to keep in mind, 2 X1950XT's could cost as much as a single HD 2900XT. The HD 2900XT from what I read has excellent performance, much on par with the 8800GTX and it's much cheaper. At $399 for the HD 2900XT, it's a no brainer. The card does run rather hot though and it's power hungry, either way make sure your case is well ventilated with good airflow, that's the key to low temps which is what you want especially when overclocking. I don't know why people are saying water cooling setups are loud, when in fact it is just the opposite. The pumps are very quiet, just make sure you have a fan control on your radiator to control the fan speed and you won't have to worry about the noise from it.

Edited by 162db, 12 July 2007 - 02:00 PM.

[89-LX]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 12 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

Hi David,

Ok so I'll paste the following out of an article. I've only copied the parts that require 2 HD's as the others start with a 3 minimum.
Now I noticed you went with X-Fire of 2 X1950's. If I were in your position I'd be inclined to get a DX 10 card. However, I would not go for the 8800 GTS 320 MB card. It's got a lot of issues with it's drivers. So stay away from it.

Even if you do choose to go ahead with the crossfire mode you're going to need a better PSU then what you've picked out.

This is a 600 Watt Seasonic http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817151030

From the last charts I've read and what Heiko sent me is nVidia is winning the video card race. So it might be wise to buy a nVidia rather than an ATi at this point.

Thanks. I would look at RAID 1 then. How much of an improvement does RAID give over standard SATA drives by themselves?

I am so undecided about a video card right now. I guess I will stick with my 6800 for the tim ebeing till I upgrade to DX10/Vista. No point in having a DX10 vid card without DX10.

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 02:58 PM, said:

If you go with the E6850, I believe you will need a motherboard that will support its 1333mhz fsb. The P5B series only support 1066mhz fsb. I would stay away from modular power supplies because over time, the cables lose their connectivity  which results in increased resistance and I had witnessed that when I had a modular power supply, took me a while to figure out why some of my hdd's were losing power. The only modular power supplies that I won't think will have that problem are the ones from Hiper. If you're going to go with 2 graphics cards, then I would suggest 600 watts as bare minimum for the power supply but since you plan to overclock, I would shoot for 750-1000 watts. The PSU is the heart of a computer system, do not take the cheap route on it.

Another thing you may want to keep in mind, 2 X1950XT's could cost as much as a single HD 2900XT. The HD 2900XT from what I read has excellent performance, much on par with the 8800GTX and it's much cheaper. At $399 for the HD 2900XT, it's a no brainer. The card does run rather hot though and it's power hungry, either way make sure your case is well ventilated with good airflow, that's the key to low temps which is what you want especially when overclocking. I don't know why people are saying water cooling setups are loud, when in fact it is just the opposite. The pumps are very quiet, just make sure you have a fan control on your radiator to control the fan speed and you won't have to worry about the noise from it.

Thanks, didn't notice that about the P5B (Didn't look indepth yet, just weight options), but I believe the P5W will cover the E6850. And with the power supply, I already own it, so its being reused. Its only a few months old.

[SwitchFX]

TBH I can't give you a personal review. PiP runs RAID on his system, so you can post in a thread he's posted in and have him come here. (PM box is always full).

[162db]

89-LX, on Jul 12 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 12 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

Hi David,

Ok so I'll paste the following out of an article. I've only copied the parts that require 2 HD's as the others start with a 3 minimum.
Now I noticed you went with X-Fire of 2 X1950's. If I were in your position I'd be inclined to get a DX 10 card. However, I would not go for the 8800 GTS 320 MB card. It's got a lot of issues with it's drivers. So stay away from it.

Even if you do choose to go ahead with the crossfire mode you're going to need a better PSU then what you've picked out.

This is a 600 Watt Seasonic http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817151030

From the last charts I've read and what Heiko sent me is nVidia is winning the video card race. So it might be wise to buy a nVidia rather than an ATi at this point.

Thanks. I would look at RAID 1 then. How much of an improvement does RAID give over standard SATA drives by themselves?

I am so undecided about a video card right now. I guess I will stick with my 6800 for the tim ebeing till I upgrade to DX10/Vista. No point in having a DX10 vid card without DX10.

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 02:58 PM, said:

If you go with the E6850, I believe you will need a motherboard that will support its 1333mhz fsb. The P5B series only support 1066mhz fsb. I would stay away from modular power supplies because over time, the cables lose their connectivity  which results in increased resistance and I had witnessed that when I had a modular power supply, took me a while to figure out why some of my hdd's were losing power. The only modular power supplies that I won't think will have that problem are the ones from Hiper. If you're going to go with 2 graphics cards, then I would suggest 600 watts as bare minimum for the power supply but since you plan to overclock, I would shoot for 750-1000 watts. The PSU is the heart of a computer system, do not take the cheap route on it.

Another thing you may want to keep in mind, 2 X1950XT's could cost as much as a single HD 2900XT. The HD 2900XT from what I read has excellent performance, much on par with the 8800GTX and it's much cheaper. At $399 for the HD 2900XT, it's a no brainer. The card does run rather hot though and it's power hungry, either way make sure your case is well ventilated with good airflow, that's the key to low temps which is what you want especially when overclocking. I don't know why people are saying water cooling setups are loud, when in fact it is just the opposite. The pumps are very quiet, just make sure you have a fan control on your radiator to control the fan speed and you won't have to worry about the noise from it.

Thanks, didn't notice that about the P5B (Didn't look indepth yet, just weight options), but I believe the P5W will cover the E6850. And with the power supply, I already own it, so its being reused. Its only a few months old.

You may want to look here regarding that power supply... http://forums.slizon...?showtopic=4965 You've been warned.

[89-LX]

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 04:02 PM, said:

You may want to look here regarding that power supply... http://forums.slizon...?showtopic=4965 You've been warned.

Thanks, I wonder if that had anything to do with my mainboard going bad on me. But then again, its seen 2.5 years of abuse, always running. It was cleaned reguarly, but still went bad for some reason. Shut it down 1 night, wouldn't start the next day. I plugged the PSU into another mainboard, and the PUS came on when I pushed the power button. Nothing comes on when I put the button on my main one.

But I am also looking at a $1000 MAX budget for everything. Thats internal hardware only. CPU, PSU, Mainboard, Memory. If I am keeping my video card for now, $700 is my budget.

[PiP]

89-LX, on Jul 10 2007, 10:53 PM, said:

I have an idea for a few of the items I will use, but others, I need some recommendations. First off, this will mainly be a FS9 gaming system until I get a new video card. For set hardware, it will be ad follows:

Video card: 6800 Ultra PCI-E
Memory: GeIL PC8000 DDR2 2GB (1GB x 2)
PSU: Antec 500W SmartPower modular
Sound Card: Creative Audigy ZS2

If you are buying these parts as opposed to keeping some old ones, then you'll find the nVidia Geforce 8600GT is the way to go.

That Antec SmartPower PSU is fine. Mul has one.

Quote

Now where I need some help, is at the following:

Processor: It will be an intel, and I am leaning toward the E6600. Now I have been reading about the E8650, and it will cost $266 compared to the $220 price tag on the E6600. I plan on watercooling the machine to keep down on the noise, and to keep longativity of the hardware, and I plan to overclock a little bit. I am doing a VATSIM big event, so I need everything here by July 25th, which means it must be ordered by July 22nd. So which should I go with?

Water cooling is not quiet, its one and only advantage over air cooling is it cools better (if you spend over $300).

Quote

Motherboard: I am leaning toward an Asus P5 motherboard. I am unsure of I should go with the P5K or P5B. Then which subverson. I know the MB's are $120-$200 also. Should I stay with Asus, or go with another brand? My MSI gave my 2.5 long years of hardware and it just gave out, so thats why I need another one.

The E6850 is a good chip, it has the same multi as the E6600 (9), but the recent E6600s have been struggling to get past 3.0Ghz. The E6850 starts there.

The best chipsets for overclocking are:
Intel:
-975X
-P965
-P35
nVidia:
-650i (some boards are better than others here)
-680i

The ATi RD600 chipset needs a lot of volts to manage a very high FSB, but with a 9x multi you should manage OK.

The board I'm leaning at right now is the "DFI Infinity P965", I'm not a fan of the Vcore on ASUS boards.

Quote

Harddrives: My current setup has 4 hard drives, 1 for the OS, 1 for FS, 1 for storage, and 1 for the programs like AIM and email. I want to condense it down, so I am buying a 500GB external for music and storage. 2 of the 4 above are SATA while the other two are older IDE setups. Should I just stick with the SATA, using the same setup, or should I get 2 new HD's and run them in RAID?

You won't like running anything from an external hdd, music may well be choppy.

RAID, I can help you with, running 2 drives there are 2 obvious choices of setup:
RAID 1 (mirrored) - both drives contain the same data, it's good if one of the drives fails as you can stick a fresh one in and rebuild the array. If you use 2 500Gb drives you get 500Gb.
RAID 0 (striped) - the data is split between the drives in small chinks, so as most files reside on both drives, there is about a 20% performance boost, but if one drive fails, you loose all. If you use 2 500Gb drives you get 1000Gb.

My RAID 0 array of 2 Seagate Barricuda 250Gb (500Gb total) 7200.10s outperforms a Western Digital Raptor X.

Look for a motherboard with on-board SATA 2 RAID. And check to see if the manafacturer offers vista 32bit and 64bit drivers for that on-board RAID adaptor.

If you want to run windows from the RAID array MSN me before you try to install windows.

Edited by PiP, 12 July 2007 - 04:30 PM.