55 replies to this topic

[SwitchFX]

Hey PiP, quick question. You mentioned boards that have built in RAID, is it as good as a hardware RAID controller card. AFAIK those onboards are considered software RAID?, no?

Thanks

[PiP]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 12 2007, 10:29 PM, said:

Hey PiP, quick question. You mentioned boards that have built in RAID, is it as good as a hardware RAID controller card. AFAIK those onboards are considered software RAID?, no?

Thanks

no.

They're seen by your PC exactly as the separate add-in cards are, sometimes they are the chip from an add-in card mounted  on the motherboard (with this set-up you'll often get some SATA ports, and some more which can do RAID), and sometimes it's a feature of the chipset.

Modern on-board RAID solutions don't steal RAM/CPU clocks like old ones did.

Windows doesn't do software RAID without modification (additional software).




Oh, and 89-LX, sorry I didn't get round to this sooner, I did see your topic but I've been quite busy.

Edited by PiP, 12 July 2007 - 04:40 PM.

[SwitchFX]

Thanks, answered my question. Figure the cost of the add on card is included into the factory specialized mother board. As to the Windows part that's why Rick had that issue.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper, 12 July 2007 - 04:39 PM.

[162db]

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU. As far as RAID goes, there is a definite performance boost regarding loading times, not much else other than that. FSX loaded much quicker when I had it in a RAID setup but make sure you have a good RAID controller. My RAID controller on my motherboard is crap and I ended up losing 2 hard drives because of that and my modular PSU that I had. As for what type of RAID, I only tried RAID 0, not sure if RAID 1 offers any noticeable improvement.

[Invisiblemoose]

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 05:21 PM, said:

Water cooling is not quiet, its one and only advantage over air cooling is it cools better (if you spend over $300).

Hmm? Water cooling can achieve almost total silence if the correct parts are chosen, and it's a lot easier to cool a radiator than a CPU heatsink...

With an HSF, you'll have to balance between cooling and noise, but with water cooling, you can have the best of both.

It's just not worth the hassle, is all...

[PiP]

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

[162db]

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

Who said anything about the TideWater? That's for graphics cards. I'm talking about the BigWater 745 which is very reasonably priced for water cooling. You really ought to do some research before saying something like that.

http://www.techpower...altake/BW745/12

http://www.overclock...er_745/pg4.html

[SwitchFX]

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 03:23 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

Who said anything about the TideWater? That's for graphics cards. I'm talking about the BigWater 745 which is very reasonably priced for water cooling. You really ought to do some research before saying something like that.

http://www.techpower...altake/BW745/12

http://www.overclock...er_745/pg4.html

It's a simple mistake. I though you said tidewater as well. You wrote TT Bigwater. Looks like Tidewater on first glance. And I'm pretty sure he's got more expertise in the field of computers than you. No offense mate.

[162db]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 12 2007, 03:00 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 03:23 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

Who said anything about the TideWater? That's for graphics cards. I'm talking about the BigWater 745 which is very reasonably priced for water cooling. You really ought to do some research before saying something like that.

http://www.techpower...altake/BW745/12

http://www.overclock...er_745/pg4.html

It's a simple mistake. I though you said tidewater as well. You wrote TT Bigwater. Looks like Tidewater on first glance. And I'm pretty sure he's got more expertise in the field of computers than you. No offense mate.

Could be a simple mistake but then why would he relate it to stock AMD and Intel coolers when the TideWater is for graphics cards? As for more expertise, to each their own, but I've been into computers since before Windows came along.

Edited by 162db, 12 July 2007 - 06:43 PM.

[SwitchFX]

Probably in a rush. Maybe he meant is as how Intel and nVidia recommend each other to go hand in hand and how AMD and ATi are the same company now.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper, 12 July 2007 - 06:37 PM.

[89-LX]

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 05:21 PM, said:

89-LX, on Jul 10 2007, 10:53 PM, said:

I have an idea for a few of the items I will use, but others, I need some recommendations. First off, this will mainly be a FS9 gaming system until I get a new video card. For set hardware, it will be ad follows:

Video card: 6800 Ultra PCI-E
Memory: GeIL PC8000 DDR2 2GB (1GB x 2)
PSU: Antec 500W SmartPower modular
Sound Card: Creative Audigy ZS2

If you are buying these parts as opposed to keeping some old ones, then you'll find the nVidia Geforce 8600GT is the way to go.

That Antec SmartPower PSU is fine. Mul has one.

I already have the video card, psu and sound card. I am just buying that memory only.

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 05:21 PM, said:

The E6850 is a good chip, it has the same multi as the E6600 (9), but the recent E6600s have been struggling to get past 3.0Ghz. The E6850 starts there.

The best chipsets for overclocking are:
Intel:
-975X
-P965
-P35
nVidia:
-650i (some boards are better than others here)
-680i

The ATi RD600 chipset needs a lot of volts to manage a very high FSB, but with a 9x multi you should manage OK.

The board I'm leaning at right now is the "DFI Infinity P965", I'm not a fan of the Vcore on ASUS boards.

I am looking at the Asus P5K right now as it supports 1333 FSB if I decide to upgrade in the future (by the end of the year) to a newer processor. The DFI is much cheaper, but it seems to have a 1066 mhx max fsb. The Asus is also a P35 chipset.

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 05:21 PM, said:

You won't like running anything from an external hdd, music may well be choppy.

RAID, I can help you with, running 2 drives there are 2 obvious choices of setup:
RAID 1 (mirrored) - both drives contain the same data, it's good if one of the drives fails as you can stick a fresh one in and rebuild the array. If you use 2 500Gb drives you get 500Gb.
RAID 0 (striped) - the data is split between the drives in small chinks, so as most files reside on both drives, there is about a 20% performance boost, but if one drive fails, you loose all. If you use 2 500Gb drives you get 1000Gb.

My RAID 0 array of 2 Seagate Barricuda 250Gb (500Gb total) 7200.10s outperforms a Western Digital Raptor X.

Look for a motherboard with on-board SATA 2 RAID. And check to see if the manafacturer offers vista 32bit and 64bit drivers for that on-board RAID adaptor.

If you want to run windows from the RAID array MSN me before you try to install windows.

The external will mainly be for storage. I don't listen to much mp3's, mainly just burn them to cd's for my car. It will be used for storing documents from school, and photos, so speed isn't too much of an issue for me with that. I am looking for gaming performance. If I do RAID, I will probaly do RAID 1. My next question is, is it ok to run windows and games on the same hd? I know people do it, but for all my photoreal scenery, I heard it was best to run FS from its own seperate harddrive. Whats the best setup/layout for FS, windows, and other games/programs.

And no problem with the reply, I just wanna order it this week.

[PiP]

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 13 2007, 12:00 AM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 03:23 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

Who said anything about the TideWater? That's for graphics cards. I'm talking about the BigWater 745 which is very reasonably priced for water cooling. You really ought to do some research before saying something like that.

http://www.techpower...altake/BW745/12

http://www.overclock...er_745/pg4.html

It's a simple mistake. I though you said tidewater as well. You wrote TT Bigwater. Looks like Tidewater on first glance. And I'm pretty sure he's got more expertise in the field of computers than you. No offense mate.

Doesn't matter, none of Thermaltake's water coolers are any good at all. Period.

Edited by PiP, 12 July 2007 - 07:01 PM.

[tropicalfish]

The only quiet water cooling is if you have those extra big radiators, saw one at Fry's three years ago, the radiator tower I saw was 3 feet tall. I imagine they could get bigger or smaller depending on design and heat radiation effectiveness and need.

[162db]

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 04:00 PM, said:

Sgt. Pepper, on Jul 13 2007, 12:00 AM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 03:23 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 12 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

162db, on Jul 12 2007, 10:45 PM, said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

If you neglect the fact that the TideWater does about as much cooling as the Ratail Intel and AMD coolers, and costs too much.

Who said anything about the TideWater? That's for graphics cards. I'm talking about the BigWater 745 which is very reasonably priced for water cooling. You really ought to do some research before saying something like that.

http://www.techpower...altake/BW745/12

http://www.overclock...er_745/pg4.html

It's a simple mistake. I though you said tidewater as well. You wrote TT Bigwater. Looks like Tidewater on first glance. And I'm pretty sure he's got more expertise in the field of computers than you. No offense mate.

Doesn't matter, none of Thermaltake's water coolers are any good at all. Period.

Define "good". I never said it was the best out there, but the 745 is a good kit for its price range. Also, do you speak from experience? I do.

Edited by 162db, 13 July 2007 - 03:07 AM.

[PiP]

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

Define "good". I never said it was the best out there, but the 745 is a good kit for its price range. Also, do you speak from experience? I do.

Speaking with much more experience than you, Thermaltake's pre-fab. water cooling kits are worse than a bunch of £30 air coolers I can name. By noise and cooling effectiveness, and more so, price.

You'd have to be barking to buy one.

[162db]

PiP, on Jul 13 2007, 02:03 AM, said:

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

Define "good". I never said it was the best out there, but the 745 is a good kit for its price range. Also, do you speak from experience? I do.

Speaking with much more experience than you, Thermaltake's pre-fab. water cooling kits are worse than a bunch of £30 air coolers I can name. By noise and cooling effectiveness, and more so, price.

You'd have to be barking to buy one.

Yeah, ok. I've listed my experience, even backed up what I say with proof. All you have done is stated your opinion, no proof, no listed experience, nothing.

[SwitchFX]

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 13 2007, 02:03 AM, said:

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

Define "good". I never said it was the best out there, but the 745 is a good kit for its price range. Also, do you speak from experience? I do.

Speaking with much more experience than you, Thermaltake's pre-fab. water cooling kits are worse than a bunch of £30 air coolers I can name. By noise and cooling effectiveness, and more so, price.

You'd have to be barking to buy one.

Yeah, ok. I've listed my experience, even backed up what I say with proof. All you have done is stated your opinion, no proof, no listed experience, nothing.

Where's the experience listed? Your's is opinion as well. You said you had great success. Sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you but I'm just confused as to what you're saying.

[PiP]

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 09:14 PM, said:

PiP, on Jul 13 2007, 02:03 AM, said:

162db, on Jul 13 2007, 09:04 AM, said:

Define "good". I never said it was the best out there, but the 745 is a good kit for its price range. Also, do you speak from experience? I do.

Speaking with much more experience than you, Thermaltake's pre-fab. water cooling kits are worse than a bunch of £30 air coolers I can name. By noise and cooling effectiveness, and more so, price.

You'd have to be barking to buy one.

Yeah, ok. I've listed my experience, even backed up what I say with proof. All you have done is stated your opinion, no proof, no listed experience, nothing.

There are a lot of folk here (and on any other forum) who share my opinion on this. Thermaltake water cooling kits are widely regarded as useless.

Edited by PiP, 13 July 2007 - 05:23 PM.

[Mul.]

162b said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

With all do respect you are comparing your Big Water 745 with a modest Freezer Pro series cooler. The Big Water 745 with it's 120.2 and 120.1 rad will perform better. Just at the end of the day you are opting to all the hassles of watercooling for performance which best case scenario is slightly better than the best of the best air coolers out there right now. Considering top end air coolers normally come with a single 120mm fan rated at around 40-50CFM (~25dBA) I can't say it's astonishing performance.

I'm not saying the Big Water 745 is a horrendous unit but quite simply it's performance is more like high end air rather than a performance water setup. I don't know about you but personally if I were to go water cooling I'd rather do it properly so you get temperatures significantly lower than air.

Mul

[162db]

Mul., on Jul 13 2007, 02:56 PM, said:

162b said:

In my experience, water cooling is much more quiet than conventional air cooling. I went from an Arctic Freezer Pro (which is a very quiet HSF) to a TT BigWater 745 which has 3 120mm fans (2 of them run at a constant speed and are very quiet and 1 has a fan control for speed) and it is much more quiet with the fan on low of course which still provides adequate cooling. Put the fan on high and it's roughly the same, maybe a bit louder than the Arctic Freezer Pro. The loudest thing in my case is now the fan from the PSU.

With all do respect you are comparing your Big Water 745 with a modest Freezer Pro series cooler. The Big Water 745 with it's 120.2 and 120.1 rad will perform better. Just at the end of the day you are opting to all the hassles of watercooling for performance which best case scenario is slightly better than the best of the best air coolers out there right now. Considering top end air coolers normally come with a single 120mm fan rated at around 40-50CFM (~25dBA) I can't say it's astonishing performance.

I'm not saying the Big Water 745 is a horrendous unit but quite simply it's performance is more like high end air rather than a performance water setup. I don't know about you but personally if I were to go water cooling I'd rather do it properly so you get temperatures significantly lower than air.

Mul

Well said. Keep in mind I never compared it to the best air cooling currently available. I just stated it's good for what it does and I think all beginners with water cooling should look into a 745 so that they may get familiar with water cooling before going with a custom setup. It's a good buy for what it does IMO.