73 replies to this topic

[goredsox]

βцziεł-411, on Sep 6 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

Chrome has been removed from my hard drive.

As if you haven't derailed threads (and other VA threads) before.  Paul, you've done this sort of thing to others so don't get angry when someone does it to you.

Anyways, the site looks improved but I agree, no reason it shouldn't work for IE.

[Paul Marcus]

goredsox, on Sep 6 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

βцziεł-411, on Sep 6 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

Chrome has been removed from my hard drive.

As if you haven't derailed threads (and other VA threads) before.  Paul, you've done this sort of thing to others so don't get angry when someone does it to you.

Anyways, the site looks improved but I agree, no reason it shouldn't work for IE.

Not the time for that man.

[goredsox]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 6 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

Not the time for that man.

And why is that?

Anyways, I hate to derail threads but this time, I couldn't help myself.

[spambot2]

goredsox, on Sep 6 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

Paul Marcus, on Sep 6 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

Not the time for that man.

And why is that?

Anyways, I hate to derail threads but this time, I couldn't help myself.

You know what all the cool kids do, PM!!

[Paul Marcus]

At least our roster is soaring up and so are the PIREPs.

[goredsox]

spambot2, on Sep 6 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

goredsox, on Sep 6 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

Paul Marcus, on Sep 6 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

Not the time for that man.

And why is that?

Anyways, I hate to derail threads but this time, I couldn't help myself.

You know what all the cool kids do, PM!!

Ya' know, I probably should have done that but I thought a little bit of "a taste of his own medicine" would be okay.  Not to mention, people were sharing the opinions on his new website, what his original post was generally about.

[Dylan W.]

I've been persuaded to join EMP46.

[Fourtyfreak]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 6 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

I and my staff stand by our decision. So far the comments I have gotten from people off this forum about the IE and Firefox issue are from very new pilots that know nothing about VA's.

Listen when you have a FULLY CUSTOM system, template, and site; it is a whole other ordeal. VAbase and all the other premade stuff may work on IE, but when you have to code things on your own, it is totally different.

OK, ignoring all the petty infighting which quite frankly is not useful in the slightest, the point I was trying to make with my initial post, was that with a few fairly minor tweaks to the code, the website would be fully W3C compliant. Once compliant, a few more IE CSS hacks would fix most of the incompatibility problems.

I can understand that you and your staff made the decision to go with Firefox only, and obviously that is entirely up to you. But, it's also a fact that the VA community is facing the problem of too many VA's starting up and thinning out the pool of available pilots. With the hundreds of VA's out there, it doesn't take much for a pilot to visit a site, take a look around, find the site doesn't work on his computer, and move on to the next VA. I'm sure quite a few VA's have lost potential pilots in the past because the site doesn't work for them.

If you are prepared for this to happen, then fine, it's your decision, and while I don't agree with it, I fully respect it. But as a prospective pilot, one has to wonder to oneself "If the webmaster can't be bothered to make the site work for me, what other little problems are  there with the site?"

Please, I'm really not trying to be inflammatory, as I said, the silly infighting which goes on on this forum is not helpful to anybody, but it is my opinion.

Granted, I'm new to VA's, I've never flown for one, and am currently actively looking for one which suits my requirements. That doesn't mean however that I'm new to Flight Sim. I've been simming since the original PSION FS version 1. So I hope you take these comments from a 25+ year veteran of FS in the constructive manner in which they were meant.

Paul

[ukmatthew]

Quote

OK, ignoring all the petty infighting which quite frankly is not useful in the slightest, the point I was trying to make with my initial post, was that with a few fairly minor tweaks to the code, the website would be fully W3C compliant. Once compliant, a few more IE CSS hacks would fix most of the incompatibility problems.

I can understand that you and your staff made the decision to go with Firefox only, and obviously that is entirely up to you. But, it's also a fact that the VA community is facing the problem of too many VA's starting up and thinning out the pool of available pilots. With the hundreds of VA's out there, it doesn't take much for a pilot to visit a site, take a look around, find the site doesn't work on his computer, and move on to the next VA. I'm sure quite a few VA's have lost potential pilots in the past because the site doesn't work for them.

If you are prepared for this to happen, then fine, it's your decision, and while I don't agree with it, I fully respect it. But as a prospective pilot, one has to wonder to oneself "If the webmaster can't be bothered to make the site work for me, what other little problems are  there with the site?"

Please, I'm really not trying to be inflammatory, as I said, the silly infighting which goes on on this forum is not helpful to anybody, but it is my opinion.

Granted, I'm new to VA's, I've never flown for one, and am currently actively looking for one which suits my requirements. That doesn't mean however that I'm new to Flight Sim. I've been simming since the original PSION FS version 1. So I hope you take these comments from a 25+ year veteran of FS in the constructive manner in which they were meant.

Paul

That guy hit the nail right on the head. Amen to that.  

[Paul Marcus]

We wanted the better crop of pilots. The pilots that are up to date with the latest technology, and no offense to anyone but IE users are just not modern enough for us, I guess. I understand there are too many VA's, and in case you did not know we are far from a start up as we have been around 2 years. Once again sorry but the membership and activity statistics are not matching up with the theories of some here.

Edited by Paul Marcus, 07 September 2009 - 04:48 PM.

[Battle_Penguin]

EMP41 Here,  

[MetroAir - Colin]

As a person with a fair amount of web development and programming skills, I would just like to say that a lot of people still use IE. The newest version has seen several improvements in web standards than previous versions. While I completely agree Firefox and even Chrome are far superior than IE, it seems weird that you wouldn't want a pilot just because he uses a browser you don't care for. If you refer to the link below, 39.3% of internet users in August are using IE, compared to Firefox's 47%, and Chrome's 7%. IE isn't far behind Firefox, and is still very widely used.

http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp

That said, it's hard to get the desired look across all browsers, but if it were up to me, I would at least strive to make it work correctly. But as Fourtfreak stated, it's up to you.

Best of luck to Empora!

[Cortez]

MetroAir - Colin, on Sep 7 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

As a person with a fair amount of web development and programming skills, I would just like to say that a lot of people still use IE. The newest version has seen several improvements in web standards than previous versions. While I completely agree Firefox and even Chrome are far superior than IE, it seems weird that you wouldn't want a pilot just because he uses a browser you don't care for. If you refer to the link below, 39.3% of internet users in August are using IE, compared to Firefox's 47%, and Chrome's 7%. IE isn't far behind Firefox, and is still very widely used.

http://www.w3schools...wsers_stats.asp

That said, it's hard to get the desired look across all browsers, but if it were up to me, I would at least strive to make it work correctly. But as Fourtfreak stated, it's up to you.

Best of luck to Empora!

The reason I think is a lot of people are still computer illiterate and only use the default IE8 or whatever number its at now

[Toyuko]

IE is not that bad but i just don't use it.

I think that all websites should work with all browsers period.

[Fourtyfreak]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 7 2009, 10:48 PM, said:

We wanted the better crop of pilots. The pilots that are up to date with the latest technology, and no offense to anyone but IE users are just not modern enough for us, I guess.

Hmmmm, the thing is, I'm fairly sure that Firefox is simply a natural progression of the Netscape Navigator code. Granted, it's been pulled to pieces, re-written, and bolted back together with loads of extra bells and whistles, but at heart, it's developed from NN code. Netscape Navigator V1 dates back to 1994, a full year before IE1 arrived, btw...

The 'latest' browser to hit our desktops is Google Chrome which arrived in 2008...

One thing I do agree on though, IE is shockingly non-compliant in terms of web standards, but it's the fact that even Opera 10, which is rated by some as the most standards compliant browser available, fails to render the code of your website properly.

Quote

I understand there are too many VA's, and in case you did not know we are far from a start up as we have been around 2 years. Once again sorry but the membership and activity statistics are not matching up with the theories of some here.

I'm well aware of the longevity of Empora, I've been keeping an eye on it for quite a while now. As I've mentioned before, if you're happy with the way things are, then great, I really do wish you the best of luck with your VA. But some of your earlier comments on this thread regarding membership numbers being flat, led me to believe that you had expected many more members to be rushing to join you. I merely mentioned the incompatibility issues as a possible reason for this lack of participation.

Best of luck.

Paul

[Iain_]

Must Say, Very Nice! Really like it, Congrats.

[PilotCallum]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 7 2009, 10:48 PM, said:

We wanted the better crop of pilots. The pilots that are up to date with the latest technology, and no offense to anyone but IE users are just not modern enough for us, I guess. I understand there are too many VA's, and in case you did not know we are far from a start up as we have been around 2 years. Once again sorry but the membership and activity statistics are not matching up with the theories of some here.

What a load of nonsense! Didn't know whether to laugh or punch my screen in anger when I read that post. I had IE on my laptop when I bought it, it doesn't bother me what I use so long as it does what it needs to do, and it does. Does that make me "not good enough" or "below par" for your virtual airline? No, if anything, your airline isn't good enough for me to join. And posting such crap like that isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Paul Marcus]

PilotCallum, on Sep 8 2009, 01:28 PM, said:

Paul Marcus, on Sep 7 2009, 10:48 PM, said:

We wanted the better crop of pilots. The pilots that are up to date with the latest technology, and no offense to anyone but IE users are just not modern enough for us, I guess. I understand there are too many VA's, and in case you did not know we are far from a start up as we have been around 2 years. Once again sorry but the membership and activity statistics are not matching up with the theories of some here.

What a load of nonsense! Didn't know whether to laugh or punch my screen in anger when I read that post. I had IE on my laptop when I bought it, it doesn't bother me what I use so long as it does what it needs to do, and it does. Does that make me "not good enough" or "below par" for your virtual airline? No, if anything, your airline isn't good enough for me to join. And posting such crap like that isn't going to get you anywhere.

And with your rudeness I don't think I would want you as a pilot.

[goredsox]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 8 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

PilotCallum, on Sep 8 2009, 01:28 PM, said:

Paul Marcus, on Sep 7 2009, 10:48 PM, said:

We wanted the better crop of pilots. The pilots that are up to date with the latest technology, and no offense to anyone but IE users are just not modern enough for us, I guess. I understand there are too many VA's, and in case you did not know we are far from a start up as we have been around 2 years. Once again sorry but the membership and activity statistics are not matching up with the theories of some here.

What a load of nonsense! Didn't know whether to laugh or punch my screen in anger when I read that post. I had IE on my laptop when I bought it, it doesn't bother me what I use so long as it does what it needs to do, and it does. Does that make me "not good enough" or "below par" for your virtual airline? No, if anything, your airline isn't good enough for me to join. And posting such crap like that isn't going to get you anywhere.

And with your rudeness I don't think I would want you as a pilot.

While I think Callum may be acting slightly harsh (not much), I couldn't agree more with him.  Browser choice has absolutely nothing to do with FS so to say by making it Firefox only, you are getting the "better crop of pilots" is just laughable and ridiculous, Paul.  In fact, I was a bit miffed by the comment but decided not to say anything until now.  Anyways, good luck to Empora.

[Paul Marcus]

Site is now 100% IE and other browser compatible.