64 replies to this topic

[Toyuko]

Alaska MD-83, on Sep 12 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

CrystalFlyer, on Sep 12 2009, 08:40 PM, said:

I am willing to moderate it!

How subtle.


No Don't, even though I don't really post here anymore, I still don't like people trying to show me "n00b wars" via MSN. If you implement a system like this can you imagine the issues caused by the crappy VAs that are not approved. They will probablly go and spam up the other areas of the forum with BS posts. (St. Louis Mississippi ). You'll also have more VA wars of those who are trying to get onto the acclaimed list.

You would not be a good MOD CrystalFlyer.

Edited by Toyuko, 13 September 2009 - 01:30 PM.

[Continental180]

Paul Marcus, on Sep 13 2009, 01:06 PM, said:

It kind of scares me how people complain about the forum and don't want to do anything about it. This would be a great way to organize things, get rid of freewebs VA's, and make people think twice about starting flame wars.

yeah but u also have to understand that va's aren't always created great at first, with a perfect domain, and website. Whats good about this forum is that we see a lot of bad ones, but majority of the people usually give constructive criticism,(hence majority) and their able to work and improve based off of that. And yeah, i understand that flame wars occur, but its gonna happen anywhere. It happens on another forum, for apple and Mac's that i visit daily. It happens everywhere, so its not like its gonna go away.

I think organizing and creating sub-forums for press releases, general chat, and requests, would make a whole of a difference. i think trying to limit the va's able to post is not a smart idea.

Edited by Continental180, 13 September 2009 - 10:46 PM.

[Greeney]

Strongly disagree... As annoying as the poor VAs are they are a vital and important part of the industry. Heck your own VA wouldn't be as impressive without the that preceded it.

[THBatMan8]

Continental180, on Sep 13 2009, 11:46 PM, said:

I think organizing and creating sub-forums for press releases, general chat, and requests, would make a whole of a difference. i think trying to limit the va's able to post is not a smart idea.

Only added subforms will waste bandwidth.




Self-moderation helps in these cases also. Constructive criticism assists everyone, but being downright rude helps no one, and only stirs up a fire. If you have something highly negative to say about someone's constructive criticism, or someones VA without offering some type of advice to make it better, do what I do and step away from the PC/Mac for 5 minutes or more, or avoid the topic all-together. If you still can't control anger, PMs are the best route. It only takes one post and two to tangle so-to-speak.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 14 September 2009 - 07:34 AM.

[Max.]

God no! We had something like this in early 07 when I first joined the forums, except instead of sticky threads "approved VA's" had their own subforums within the VA forum. It didn't work then and as such this won't work now.

[ukmatthew]

Your totally wrong. This would create more flame wars if anything. If they don't get on the list its going to provoke them even more. Also if new vas cant get into the list so that they can improve etc how the can they even try. it seems to me as you think your va is the best and everyone else comes below par. yes its annoying the amount of vas that come out but if you don't like it don't comment. if it really is as bad as you think it is it won't last long and they'll go away. You have also got to remember that it is a open forum and other people are allowed to have their say. What would any forum be without thins being allowed. I just think that if a va doesn't look good enough for someone then offer them good advice or none at all. Their no need for "your crap" because how is that going to help.

In all its a bad idea and has been suggested numerous times before. you say it works on Vatsim and Ivao and thats because it actually is a list and it not a forum. Its different and it won't work.

Edited by ukmatthew, 14 September 2009 - 09:48 AM.

[caribbeanflyboy]

ukmatthew, on Sep 14 2009, 10:47 AM, said:

Your totally wrong. This would create more flame wars if anything. If they don't get on the list its going to provoke them even more. Also if new vas cant get into the list so that they can improve etc how the can they even try. it seems to me as you think your va is the best and everyone else comes below par. yes its annoying the amount of vas that come out but if you don't like it don't comment. if it really is as bad as you think it is it won't last long and they'll go away. You have also got to remember that it is a open forum and other people are allowed to have their say. What would any forum be without thins being allowed. I just think that if a va doesn't look good enough for someone then offer them good advice or none at all. Their no need for "your crap" because how is that going to help.

In all its a bad idea and has been suggested numerous times before. you say it works on Vatsim and Ivao and thats because it actually is a list and it not a forum. Its different and it won't work.

I agree with ukmatthew, this forum especially is mainly based off of CEO and staff of VAs, new entrepreneurs come here every now and again trying to get their breakthrough, how many of us ourselves haven't closed one, left one and joined another or even opened another?

Don't exclude, include, motivate and assist where you can. Don't bring them down or tell them how awful their logo and first attempt at building a website is. Lead by example.

This forum makes you or breaks you.

Edited by caribbeanflyboy, 14 September 2009 - 10:36 AM.

[Mohammad]

Why should we have our freedom restricted because of a bunch of kids who can't control their temper? Is this really fair for the majority who did nothing wrong? Only a minor few people are allowing themselves to start all these flame wars but it only 'appears' as though it's getting out of hands because these topics gain more attention than the dozens of other genuine threads. I'm not for compromising or restricting membership freedom, especially when it concerns something FS-related, for the sake of cutting down arguments and insults. If we wanted to restrict the off-topic forum, OTOH, then I'm all for it since it has nothing to do with FS. Let them fight each other, for all we know they would eventually rid themselves from this forum.

As for this forum being a dictatorship and not a democracy, that argument doesn't even make sense. Some people are really taking this place too seriously and beginning to treat it like a country. It's a forum for heaven's sake. Yeah it's a one man show, which is why our suggestions are useless anyway. Furthermore, while it's true we don't have a say in the forum's decisions, essentially the administrators would want to keep everyone happy around here otherwise members will start disappearing in the dozens and heading elsewhere, to competitive flight simulation forums.

Let's not ruin the fun for everyone because of a few kids.

There are only 2 solutions for these kinds of people. One is that they grow up. Two, is that they get banned. Let them decide their fate.

[RWY 15]

Alex - MetroAir, on Sep 12 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

Paul,

I am one of those who voted no, for one huge reason and a couple of others.

But the main reason I voted no is because, as it stands, your proposal does nothing to address the crap that happens in the posts for the "big name" VAs.  For example, in a recent PR for MetroAir, there were a few rascals that decided to completely destroy the thread.  I'm assuming MetroAir would be one of those acceptable VAs that could post, and yet, there was crap in the thread.

I think the forum is fine as it is, in terms of allowing what VAs to post.  But it almost seems as if this sub-forum needs a dedicated Moderator just for this forum.

Agreed.

I can't say that I have experienced the same level of derailment that we have seen in other VA threads.

I just don't think this is the correct solution.

[ukmatthew]

Also i would like to add that acting like forum police when your not its helping and your stirring it up. Dan C for example. Anytime theres argument there him saying what their doing wrong. Report button then the proper mods will take the action. For some reason people totally forget any rules when they come in the VA section. Stricter punishments should be given there to show them we take no .

[tropicalfish]

My suggestion is....

Moderator approval for all posts in the Virtual Airlines section? That would definitely cut down on the crap.

[Prash]

tropicalfish, on Sep 15 2009, 05:00 AM, said:

My suggestion is....

Moderator approval for all posts in the Virtual Airlines section? That would definitely cut down on the crap.

Who would moderate? As they have stated themselves, they do have lives outside of this forum, and validating ALL the posts in this forum would take a while.

[ukmatthew]

I think moderator approval would be too much. Unless they recruit new mods as i feel there should be more anyway for a forum of this size.

Edited by ukmatthew, 15 September 2009 - 10:34 AM.

[Mohammad]

I wholeheartedly disagree. As it stands, we have enough active moderators to manage this place. There are at least four (Mango, Bman., Mul. and Toby Werner) plus Brad & Jon. So that makes us have at least six active staff members keeping this forum clean. The problem isn't with insufficient moderation; the real problem has to do with the influx of trolls and kids we have around here. And this problem will fix itself over time, for three main reasons:

1. They'll grow out of it.
2. They decide to grow up.
3. They end up getting banned.

We don't need more mods and we don't need more restriction. And we certainly don't need people trying to police this place as they create more problems rather than solving them.

I think requesting more moderators would add insult to Brad and Jon's selection of staff members, as it will imply that their decisions were nothing but utter failure, which isn't necessarily the case right now. Besides, I can't think of any other potential candidate I could trust right now from not abusing this power once it is given to them.

Edited by Mohammad, 15 September 2009 - 10:48 AM.

[ukmatthew]

Abuse the "power". You make it sound like where selecting god. Its a moderator for hells sake. Its not that they've made bad choices. I just think we do ned more to loosen it out a bit.

[Mohammad]

ukmatthew, on Sep 15 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

Abuse the "power". You make it sound like where selecting god. Its a moderator for hells sake. Its not that they've made bad choices. I just think we do ned more to loosen it out a bit.

Funny, I thought we needed more to tighten the loose ends instead.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

Nobody's comparing moderation to gods around here. But we certainly don't need more staff members. Itll only make a clash of egos instead of turning situations for the better.

[tropicalfish]

Prash, on Sep 15 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

tropicalfish, on Sep 15 2009, 05:00 AM, said:

My suggestion is....

Moderator approval for all posts in the Virtual Airlines section? That would definitely cut down on the crap.

Who would moderate? As they have stated themselves, they do have lives outside of this forum, and validating ALL the posts in this forum would take a while.

Yes, I do agree that it is quite a bit of a load on the moderators and admins, but realistically, there isn't really another way to deal with the VA forum  trolling--EFFECTIVELY, aside from abolishing the VA forum entirely.

With post moderation, each post can be checked for profanity or insults. Rather than wait for threads to grow into long arguments, the issue can be prevented. Any offending post can be denied, and the member that submitted that post can face punishments, such as suspensions.

[Mohammad]

tropicalfish, on Sep 15 2009, 06:58 PM, said:

Prash, on Sep 15 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

tropicalfish, on Sep 15 2009, 05:00 AM, said:

My suggestion is....

Moderator approval for all posts in the Virtual Airlines section? That would definitely cut down on the crap.

Who would moderate? As they have stated themselves, they do have lives outside of this forum, and validating ALL the posts in this forum would take a while.

Yes, I do agree that it is quite a bit of a load on the moderators and admins, but realistically, there isn't really another way to deal with the VA forum  trolling--EFFECTIVELY, aside from abolishing the VA forum entirely.

With post moderation, each post can be checked for profanity or insults. Rather than wait for threads to grow into long arguments, the issue can be prevented. Any offending post can be denied, and the member that submitted that post can face punishments, such as suspensions.

This is going to be my last post in this topic but all I can say is I'm for the idea of turning Flightsimworld into another Avsim or Flightsim community, if you get my drift.

I feel these flight simulation communities feel a lot more professional than we are at the moment. I don't know if you noticed this but even our ranking in google searches for flight sim forums decreased lately, and our site can be found on the 2nd or 3rd search pages. Perhaps its a bad sign, I don't know, especially since we used to be in the front page a few years ago.

Ill still stand by what I said earlier. I don't think a few people should ruin the fun for everybody. You don't restrict people's freedom because one or two guys exploited or abused the system. Instead, you take care of the one or two guys, i.e. get rid of them. When I talk about people's personal freedom, Im against the idea of restricting fs-related areas of this website. But when it comes down to off-topic crap, Im all for it.

I think the first step in the right direction is if we turn professional, just like Avsim.com or Flightsim.com! In other words, no more off-topic or nonsense topics. No more stuff not related to fs, etc. This will also discourage immature kids from coming around here. Flightsimworld needs to lose its randomness factor. It needs to stop feeling more like a general discussions forum and begin to behave more like a real fs-related message board.

That is all...

Edited by Mohammad, 15 September 2009 - 08:24 PM.

[THBatMan8]

I haven't been here that long, but the main issue I've seen in the VA section in the last few months were from members who came back after being "taken care of". I've seen a few come back after being banned using a different proxy. I think that is where Tropicalfish was going with the post moderation.


One of the items that attracted me to this website is the fact that aviation isn't always the main topic of discussion. Granted, I love airplanes, but even flying gets repetitious if that is all you talk about. My personal viewpoint is that I wonder if FSW would be a better place altogether if the VA sub-forum would vanish completely, or put it under a probationary period.

Edited by Da Bat Man, 17 September 2009 - 03:31 AM.

[tropicalfish]

Mohammad, on Sep 15 2009, 08:21 PM, said:

Ill still stand by what I said earlier. I don't think a few people should ruin the fun for everybody. You don't restrict people's freedom because one or two guys exploited or abused the system. Instead, you take care of the one or two guys, i.e. get rid of them. When I talk about people's personal freedom, Im against the idea of restricting fs-related areas of this website. But when it comes down to off-topic crap, Im all for it.

I think the first step in the right direction is if we turn professional, just like Avsim.com or Flightsim.com! In other words, no more off-topic or nonsense topics. No more stuff not related to fs, etc. This will also discourage immature kids from coming around here. Flightsimworld needs to lose its randomness factor. It needs to stop feeling more like a general discussions forum and begin to behave more like a real fs-related message board.

That is all...

Yes, while I do agree that it restricts the freedom of the better members, you have to think about the number of repeat offenders that keep coming back after their ban.

Simply saying "No more Off-Topic" isn't going to stop it. Rather than trying to clean up the mess, stop the mess at its source--hence, post moderation.

Yes, it does slow down the VA forum, and yes, it does give the moderators some more work... but in the long run, it discourages poor VAs from starting up and bad comments because the members will begin to realize that each one of their VA posts are being screened.