73 replies to this topic

[_NW_]

THBatMan8, on Oct 22 2009, 12:40 AM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

I'm obviously going to get a degree to fall back on (either Aeronauticle design or history, on WAY different ends of the spectrum ).

Get a CDL, it's cheaper and more expendable.  

Pays better and has far superior job security as well

[THBatMan8]

NWilkinson, on Oct 22 2009, 12:46 PM, said:

THBatMan8, on Oct 22 2009, 12:40 AM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

I'm obviously going to get a degree to fall back on (either Aeronauticle design or history, on WAY different ends of the spectrum ).

Get a CDL, it's cheaper and more expendable.  

Pays better and has far superior job security as well

True. As long as you keep it and the DOT medical card updated it's a great fallback item.  

Edited by THBatMan8, 22 October 2009 - 12:24 PM.

[Timmeh]

^ Indeed.

I just want to make a good living while flying in the end. No paycheck to paycheck weeks. Too bad that's how you start out as a pilot! =D

[THBatMan8]

Hysteriantics, on Oct 22 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

^ Indeed.

I just want to make a good living while flying in the end. No paycheck to paycheck weeks. Too bad that's how you start out as a pilot! =D

That's basically how you're going to start out at any job. OTR student pay isn't the greatest, but it beats flipping burgers at McDonalds.

If you want to make decent money in the field, grab some endorsements and drive for a intrastate company (IE, FedEX, UPS, ex).

Edited by THBatMan8, 22 October 2009 - 02:04 PM.

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Plans... throw your plans away. Get your licenses and then you will take whatever job comes your way. It's as simple as that.

You should call the company and find out if they hire pilot engineers. Some companies only hire mechanic engineers. If they hire pilot engineeers then you will neeed an FE license to get a job there as they probably hire into the FE seat on the 727 first.

[Cactus]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 22 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

Duke, on Oct 21 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Good luck with your work permit

Um, you do realize I'm going to be 22-23 by then, right? Or is this some Canadian regulation I don't know about?

Or if it's something funny you picked out of my post, please realize I'm really tired right now.

You can't just walk into a foreign country and work without getting a Work Visa/Permit.

I believe in your country, those are called "Mexicans".

[AmericanAirFan]

Duke, on Oct 22 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 22 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

Duke, on Oct 21 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Good luck with your work permit

Um, you do realize I'm going to be 22-23 by then, right? Or is this some Canadian regulation I don't know about?

Or if it's something funny you picked out of my post, please realize I'm really tired right now.

You can't just walk into a foreign country and work without getting a Work Visa/Permit.

I believe in your country, those are called "Mexicans".

They call people from Mexico Mexicans in Canada too

Edited by AmericanAirFan, 22 October 2009 - 05:23 PM.

[Flying_Pie]

I just thought of some guy with a strong Canadian accent saying the equivilent of "DEY TOOK R JERBS"

Edited by Flying_Pie, 22 October 2009 - 05:24 PM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Duke, on Oct 22 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 22 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

Duke, on Oct 21 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Good luck with your work permit

Um, you do realize I'm going to be 22-23 by then, right? Or is this some Canadian regulation I don't know about?

Or if it's something funny you picked out of my post, please realize I'm really tired right now.

You can't just walk into a foreign country and work without getting a Work Visa/Permit.

I believe in your country, those are called "Mexicans".

Well, that won't be a problem, because since the family might be moving to Canada too, we'll all probably become Canadian citizens. If not then I'll just get a Visa. Or a third option is dual citizenship, too early to tell...

[Brandon-M]

We don't want any amerimexicans.

[_NW_]

Brandon., on Oct 22 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

We don't want any amerimexicans.

Just because Bush Jr. made up words doesn't mean you can too  

[Gym_Class_Hero]

That episode was freakin hilarious. "Misterr, you better take your gay porn and walk right outta this bar."

Found this, your right DC8, starting position is 727 FE, and I'd bet that position will still be here in 6-7 years, Kelowna's replacing their old 727s with newer ones.

http://www.pilotcare...rier.aspx?ID=57

And according to another site, starting pay for a first year FE is around $35,000 a year. Not bad for a job right out of school. You can't go hog wild, but for a single guy, with a little budgeting, you can get by.

So is there only one FE rating, or do you need a type rating for different aircraft? And what's usually next after a 727 FE seat at places like this? DC-10 FE? Convair 580 F/O? 727 F/O?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 24 October 2009 - 06:10 PM.

[Captain-Amar]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 23 2009, 12:11 AM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Plans... throw your plans away. Get your licenses and then you will take whatever job comes your way. It's as simple as that.

Amen.

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 24 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

That episode was freakin hilarious. "Misterr, you better take your gay porn and walk right outta this bar."

Found this, your right DC8, starting position is 727 FE, and I'd bet that position will still be here in 6-7 years, Kelowna's replacing their old 727s with newer ones.

http://www.pilotcare...rier.aspx?ID=57

And according to another site, starting pay for a first year FE is around $35,000 a year. Not bad for a job right out of school. You can't go hog wild, but for a single guy, with a little budgeting, you can get by.

So is there only one FE rating, or do you need a type rating for different aircraft? And what's usually next after a 727 FE seat at places like this? DC-10 FE? Convair 580 F/O? 727 F/O?

Your heading in the right direction... someone is finally listening. Get your FE license with a turbojet rating. There are no type ratings for the FE position but you will have to earn a qualification on each plane you are an engineer on and stay current with an annual profficiency check which the company will give you.  $35K is a low. I started out making 36k on the DC8 14 years ago.

There are 3 seniority lists based on hire date. FE seniority which is the most junior seat. FO seniority and then captain seniority. So the next step up from 727 FO would be a DC10 engineer spot or a Convair FO spot. The DC10 engineer spot might not be what you want and you may pass the position onto a more junior FE if your waitingfor an FO spot on the Convair. You'd be passing up a pay increase on the DC10 FE spot to hopefully move quicker into the FO seat.

Make lists of all companies hiring pilot FE's and submit resumes. Some companies only hire proffesional FE's with A&P licenses.

You will eventually get an engineers job. And it's a great job. I loved the FE seat. It's a great position to learn how to fly large planes. I could never have flown the DC8 from the FO position out of flight school with 300TT unless If I didn't have the FE seat to observe and learn first.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 24 2009, 08:16 PM, said:

You'd be passing up a pay increase on the DC10 FE spot to hopefully move quicker into the FO seat.

Which, in the long run, will be better paying. Lose a little now, get more in the end. I've done some research, and apparentally the FE job doesn't really last long at KFC (epic airline acronym ), one guy with experience with Kelowna said the average time as an FE is 1.5 years. Was it like that with you?

Is a DC-10 FE really below a Convair FO? Seems like a downgrade for someone with a turbojet rating.

And dude, don't worry, people listen to your posts. Your going on to fly an Atlas 744F, how any of us can say that? Or even have airline experience? Only a few! Don't deny the influence of your posts!

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 01:15 AM.

[TheBearJew]

The aircraft seniority usually goes by the aircraft MGTOW. The lower the MGTOW the lower in seniority it is. So the Convair would be the most junior of the fleet for FO's. The thing that sucks about upgrading is that if a furlough comes you are now a junior FO and was a senior 727 FE. So you chances of furlough go up dramatically again like when you got hired.

I don't get a lot of responses to my posts so I have no idea if anyone actually reads them.  

The only thing you can do is prepare yourself by getting the licenses and then putting yourself in the right position to get the job. There are some tricks to doing that as well.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 01:16 AM, said:

The thing that sucks about upgrading is that if a furlough comes you are now a junior FO and was a senior 727 FE. So you chances of furlough go up dramatically again like when you got hired.

That sucks the biggest one, and a bit surprissing. So it's three seperate scales, for FE, FO, and Captain? Would make more sense if it was one continuous scale, but not a lot makes sense anymore in this world.

You said before that you can skip positions on the heirarchy (from 727FE to Convair FO, skipping DC10), how common is this? And how would this effect your place on the scale? Like if I was able to upgrade past the Convair, and let another pilot take that spot if they were wanting it, would I still be considered a junior FO? Or does skipping only occur between positions?

And I'm not hating on the Convair 580 (I love it, actually ), I'm just using it as an example.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 01:33 AM.

[Cortez]

Duke, on Oct 22 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 22 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

Duke, on Oct 21 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 21 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

So DC8SUPER72, what is your opinion on my plan? Is freight dogging it with someone like Kelowna Flightcraft a viable alternative to the regionals?

Good luck with your work permit

Um, you do realize I'm going to be 22-23 by then, right? Or is this some Canadian regulation I don't know about?

Or if it's something funny you picked out of my post, please realize I'm really tired right now.

You can't just walk into a foreign country and work without getting a Work Visa/Permit.

I believe in your country, those are called "Mexicans".

Lol!

[audiohavoc]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 24 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

I don't get a lot of responses to my posts so I have no idea if anyone actually reads them.  

Hey man, I read pretty much all of your posts, and I know I have thanked you before for your input, but seriously, input from someone like you who has been there, done that is seriously valuable. Fortunately for myself, you are not the only person with experience that I speak to, and I take everyone's advice and knowledge into consideration.

On another note, congrats on the Atlas gig.  That is pretty cool in my book.  I fly for Globe Cargo Virtual which simulates  Atlas and Polar operations.  It's funny to me that I am simulating a career, but you have to admit that aviation is very cool.  My real career is as a self-employed live event production engineer, and I can't even imagine someone trying to simulate what I do, but it is pretty funny to think of people doing it.

Audiohavoc

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 02:23 AM, said:

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 01:16 AM, said:

The thing that sucks about upgrading is that if a furlough comes you are now a junior FO and was a senior 727 FE. So you chances of furlough go up dramatically again like when you got hired.

That sucks the biggest one, and a bit surprissing. So it's three seperate scales, for FE, FO, and Captain? Would make more sense if it was one continuous scale, but not a lot makes sense anymore in this world.

You said before that you can skip positions on the heirarchy (from 727FE to Convair FO, skipping DC10), how common is this? And how would this effect your place on the scale? Like if I was able to upgrade past the Convair, and let another pilot take that spot if they were wanting it, would I still be considered a junior FO? Or does skipping only occur between positions?

And I'm not hating on the Convair 580 (I love it, actually ), I'm just using it as an example.

You can skip the DC10 FE if an FO position opens up on the Convair and no one higher in FE seniority than you wants it. If the DC10 FE spot opens up you can turn it down, stay in the 727 FE seat and wait for the Convair. But as an FO the least senior seat is in the Convair. You will have to fly the Convair as an FO. You will be passing on a pay upgrade as well. The reason you might want to pass the DC10 FE is if the situation dicatates that the airline is expanding and people are moving in seniority and that going ot FE class on the DC10 would lead to a short lived job in the DC10 before going back to school again as a Convair FO. Learning a new plane and taking checkrides sucks! So you might choose to stay in the 727. But this is all speculation. I don't know if they let you skip upgrades there. Usually it's allowed. But I don't know if it's common practice there.

Get into the FO seat as soon as possible no matter what yo uare flying. You are always in the time building stage until you reach about 3000 hrs PIC turbojet. Then you can relax as you will pretty much never be unemployed again after you reach that milestone. At that point your FedEx material or any othr major airline. Captains are always in demand. ALWAYS. Even if it's a temp job. You will always find work.

Some airlines don't respect seat seniority. The really bad ones anyways. Some will upgrade at random. Some will upgrade in type by having a seniority list for each aircraft flown. They may have a 727 seniority and upgrade an FE to the FO seat in the 727 instead of moving him to the most junior plane the Convair. Some airlines aren't unionized and the managment doesn't respect it's own seniority arangment except for furloughs.

audiohavoc, on Oct 25 2009, 04:03 AM, said:

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 24 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

I don't get a lot of responses to my posts so I have no idea if anyone actually reads them.  

Hey man, I read pretty much all of your posts, and I know I have thanked you before for your input, but seriously, input from someone like you who has been there, done that is seriously valuable. Fortunately for myself, you are not the only person with experience that I speak to, and I take everyone's advice and knowledge into consideration.

On another note, congrats on the Atlas gig.  That is pretty cool in my book.  I fly for Globe Cargo Virtual which simulates  Atlas and Polar operations.  It's funny to me that I am simulating a career, but you have to admit that aviation is very cool.  My real career is as a self-employed live event production engineer, and I can't even imagine someone trying to simulate what I do, but it is pretty funny to think of people doing it.

Audiohavoc

Thanks Audiohavoc. I appreciate it!