73 replies to this topic

[Cactus]

From AvCanada:

Upgrade time- when spots open up. right now (this was written in 2008 - Ian), the recent upgrades to F/O have been within 14-18 months (see next statement, brownie points go nowhere here)
Yes, its a union - ALPA.
Low timers - last 2 classes had folks from instructors with 500 hrs to multi-turbine captains with 4,000+ hrs. Who's gonna find it easier for the upgrade? and for movement after f/o?
Pay- High 30s to start, plus overtime and per diums, expect to make low 40's.
Work conditions- yes, long nights (8-12 hours on the longer runs, 5 hours on the shorter, stay overday runs), and lots of them (supposed to be 13, but more like 15-16 right now, new hires will help within 6-8 months), but considering what you work at Jazz, less, and with the option of bidding less away-from-home time.
One of the best things about working for KFC are your fellow employees. Very supportive and helpful, no backstabbing, captains have diverse backgrounds with tons of experience.
One of the worse things is management - that does appear to be changing.


In the end, DC-8 is right.... you're going to take a job wherever the opportunity arises, not what is most convenient or attractive for yourself. The latter is the type of job you can choose after you've been around the block a few times and are ready to retire.

PS: KFC only got their first (and only) DC-10 a year ago, I'd expect a nice little line-up ahead of you to fly that bird.

Edited by Duke, 25 October 2009 - 03:55 AM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Duke, on Oct 25 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

PS: KFC only got their first (and only) DC-10 a year ago, I'd expect a nice little line-up ahead of you to fly that bird.

Actually, they have two. And according to Barry Lapointe, they seem to want to start getting more into that area of cargo, so they may possibly get more in the future.

Only time will tell, but KFC is in stable condition given the economy, and they appear to have a very bright future.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 01:02 PM.

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Duke, on Oct 25 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

PS: KFC only got their first (and only) DC-10 a year ago, I'd expect a nice little line-up ahead of you to fly that bird.

Actually, they have two. And according to Barry Lapointe, they seem to want to start getting more into that area of cargo, so they may possibly get more in the future.

Only time will tell, but KFC is in stable condition given the economy, and they appear to have a very bright future.

Not to on your parade..... BUT I have seen many mergers that decided to kill off the airline after merging. Emery Airlines was killed off when they were taken over. Kalitta was killed off when they were aquired by Kitty Hawk, Challenge Air cargo was killed off after it was aquired by UPS. There were no hiring of pilots or personel after these aquisitions. IE Challenge Air Cargo Pilots, Emery, Kalittta pilots were simply fired. The airline industry is very fickle and will bite you in the when you least expect it. Especially at airlines like KFC. The FAA can come in and shut them down. They can have an accident etc. All of the above I have experienced in the last 14 years of my career. Don't make specific plans but have a general and broad reaching plan. I speak from experience.

Edited by DC8SUPER72, 25 October 2009 - 01:15 PM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Duke, on Oct 25 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

PS: KFC only got their first (and only) DC-10 a year ago, I'd expect a nice little line-up ahead of you to fly that bird.

Actually, they have two. And according to Barry Lapointe, they seem to want to start getting more into that area of cargo, so they may possibly get more in the future.

Only time will tell, but KFC is in stable condition given the economy, and they appear to have a very bright future.

Not to on your parade..... BUT I have seen many mergers that decided to kill off the airline after merging. Emery Airlines was killed off when they were taken over. Kalitta was killed off when they were aquired by Kitty Hawk, Challenge Air cargo was killed off after it was aquired by UPS. There were no hiring of pilots or personel after these aquisitions. IE Challenge Air Cargo Pilots, Emery, Kalittta pilots were simply fired. The airline industry is very fickle and will bite you in the when you least expect it. Especially at airlines like KFC. The FAA can come in and shut them down. They can have an accident etc. All of the above I have experienced in the last 14 years of my career. Don't make specific plans but have a general and broad reaching plan. I speak from experience.

Hope nothing like that happens, but 6 years is a long time, and anything can happen. I hope they won't sell out like that. Hopefully the fact that KFC is only a part of KF, instead of an independent airline, wil help protect it from mergers. From what I have read Barry has no intention on merging, and I don't think KFC is publicly traded, which prevents hostile takeovers. But, once again, anything can happen.

I know the risk I take when I upgrade positions. This whole industry is a challenge to claw your way to the top. If your a 727FE, you want to get in the DC10FE ASAP. Or if your a Convair FO, you want to get in the 727FO spot ASAP. But if you don't take that risk, you'll get nowhere. I get it.

The one worry I have is the Convairs. Their place in the fleet for the future is a toss-up. A. They're the oldest type in the fleet, with no newer frames to replace it (unlike the 727, which has 80s models). B. They are moving to higher capacity cargo. So if I do eventually get a job with them, I hope the Convair 580 has an assured future with them, or it is already gone. My biggest worry about getting a flying job is being caught in a fleet type during it's retirement.

BTW in places like this do you get to pick your own base, usually? Like if different types are kept at different bases, will you be put on a type based on your base, or will you need to move?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 01:36 PM.

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Duke, on Oct 25 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

PS: KFC only got their first (and only) DC-10 a year ago, I'd expect a nice little line-up ahead of you to fly that bird.

Actually, they have two. And according to Barry Lapointe, they seem to want to start getting more into that area of cargo, so they may possibly get more in the future.

Only time will tell, but KFC is in stable condition given the economy, and they appear to have a very bright future.

Not to on your parade..... BUT I have seen many mergers that decided to kill off the airline after merging. Emery Airlines was killed off when they were taken over. Kalitta was killed off when they were aquired by Kitty Hawk, Challenge Air cargo was killed off after it was aquired by UPS. There were no hiring of pilots or personel after these aquisitions. IE Challenge Air Cargo Pilots, Emery, Kalittta pilots were simply fired. The airline industry is very fickle and will bite you in the when you least expect it. Especially at airlines like KFC. The FAA can come in and shut them down. They can have an accident etc. All of the above I have experienced in the last 14 years of my career. Don't make specific plans but have a general and broad reaching plan. I speak from experience.

Hope nothing like that happens, but 6 years is a long time, and anything can happen. I hope they won't sell out like that. Hopefully the fact that KFC is only a part of KF, instead of an independent airline, wil help protect it from mergers. From what I have read Barry has no intention on merging, and I don't think KFC is publicly traded, which prevents hostile takeovers. But, once again, anything can happen.

I know the risk I take when I upgrade positions. This whole industry is a challenge to claw your way to the top. If your a 727FE, you want to get in the DC10FE ASAP. Or if your a Convair FO, you want to get in the 727FO spot ASAP. But if you don't take that risk, you'll get nowhere. I get it.

The one worry I have is the Convairs. Their place in the fleet for the future is a toss-up. A. They're the oldest type in the fleet, with no newer frames to replace it (unlike the 727, which has 80s models). B. They are moving to higher capacity cargo. So if I do eventually get a job with them, I hope the Convair 580 has an assured future with them, or it is already gone. My biggest worry about getting a flying job is being caught in a fleet type during it's retirement.

BTW in places like this do you get to pick your own base, usually? Like if different types are kept at different bases, will you be put on a type based on your base, or will you need to move?

If your a 727 FE then you want to be as senior a 727FE as possible. Moving to the DC10 makes you a junior DC10 FE again. Junior bidding, probably not holding a line, and first to furlough. Just be as senior in your seat position as possible.

And then when you get furloughed or fired, or the airline closes up, or bought out you start at the next airline at the bottom of the seniority. That's why some people choose not to go to major airlines like myself. I'm not going to wait 15 years from date of hire to upgrade to captain. I'm not going to sit a reserve line in some city I don't live in in a crash pad. Atlas crews are home based and I won't have to jumpseat to work as the company buys you a ticket. The majors you have to find your own way to get to your base which means jumpseating/leaving home early. I think Atlas is currently on a 16 day work month extendable to 21 while most majors are on a 21 day line sched when junior I believe. I am not up on all the facts, but these numbers are generally accurate. Atlas also has a Miami base and that's where my friends are. Only a 2 hour drive from my house. I love to fly cargo so Atlas works out really well for me.

I am happy I don't needthe money because then I would have to go to a major.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

If your a 727 FE then you want to be as senior a 727FE as possible. Moving to the DC10 makes you a junior DC10 FE again. Junior bidding, probably not holding a line, and first to furlough. Just be as senior in your seat position as possible.

Which is why you gotta strike when the iron is hot, right? Get in ASAP when they start hiring, that way even if your a junior 727FE, there's a lot of late-comers below you who will get furloughed first.

The industry isn't expecting a full recovery until 2016, so this is perfect timing for me. I can get an FE certification in 2014 (21, correct?), and I graduate in 2015 (though I might be able to graduate earlier, I'll have a history credit and my foreign language credits done out of HS). Hopefully, if things go as Barry has planned, they'll have a few more -10s and have renewed the 727 fleet (and then some, if they still are doing Purolator work).

Other freight doggers I am looking at after college are Tradewinds, ATI, First Air, ABX, Kallita, Centurion, Arrow, and Cargojet. Is the only chance of getting a freight dog job out of school in an FE seat? What if the company doesn't fly FE-equiped aircraft (like ABX and [soon to be] First Air)?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 05:04 PM.

[THBatMan8]

^

ABX did have FE seats as the 727 was part of the fleet. Also IIRC, ABX doesn't do DHL charters anymore and I'm not sure if the company is still in existence (I doubt it). As DC8 mentioned earlier, try to avoid setting goals on a airline to work for as you'll end up avoiding other job opportunities because of it.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

THBatMan8, on Oct 25 2009, 11:21 PM, said:

^

ABX did have FE seats as the 727 was part of the fleet. Also IIRC, ABX doesn't do DHL charters anymore and I'm not sure if the company is still in existence (I doubt it). As DC8 mentioned earlier, try to avoid setting goals on a airline to work for as you'll end up avoiding other job opportunities because of it.

Yeah, they are still in existence, but they are smaller.

[TheBearJew]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Oct 25 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 25 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

If your a 727 FE then you want to be as senior a 727FE as possible. Moving to the DC10 makes you a junior DC10 FE again. Junior bidding, probably not holding a line, and first to furlough. Just be as senior in your seat position as possible.

Which is why you gotta strike when the iron is hot, right? Get in ASAP when they start hiring, that way even if your a junior 727FE, there's a lot of late-comers below you who will get furloughed first.

The industry isn't expecting a full recovery until 2016, so this is perfect timing for me. I can get an FE certification in 2014 (21, correct?), and I graduate in 2015 (though I might be able to graduate earlier, I'll have a history credit and my foreign language credits done out of HS). Hopefully, if things go as Barry has planned, they'll have a few more -10s and have renewed the 727 fleet (and then some, if they still are doing Purolator work).

Other freight doggers I am looking at after college are Tradewinds, ATI, First Air, ABX, Kallita, Centurion, Arrow, and Cargojet. Is the only chance of getting a freight dog job out of school in an FE seat? What if the company doesn't fly FE-equiped aircraft (like ABX and [soon to be] First Air)?

Your seniority will be assigned by your birth year. The younger you are the less senior you will be in your class. So if there are 10 FE's in your 727 class and your the youngest you will be the most junior engineer.

Mosty of those airlines you mentioned only hire FE's with A&P licenses. ABX Kalitta, ATI are not the bottom of the barrel. They won't look at you. You will be looking for jobs at airlines that don't paint their names on their planes, or companies like Amerijet, Custom Air Transport, Epress.net. All freight companies are not created equal. ABX which is now combined with A-Star won't hire you either as you won't meet their minimums.

Edited by DC8SUPER72, 25 October 2009 - 11:38 PM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Is your seniority based at all on your TT? Even if I am the youngest, if I have more TT than another, older FE am I still on the bottom (I think that came out wrong )?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 25 October 2009 - 11:42 PM.

[TheBearJew]

Seniority is based on your hire date. Your hire date is the day you start training class. If there are ten FE's in that class hired on the 727 and your the youngest your seniority # will be the last. It has nothing to do with total time.

Edited by DC8SUPER72, 26 October 2009 - 12:09 AM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 26 2009, 12:07 AM, said:

Seniority is based on your hire date. Your hire date is the day you start training class. If there are ten FE's in that class hired on the 727 and your the youngest your seniority # will be the last. It has nothing to do with total time.

What if there are classes after you? Will you still be below them if you are younger?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 26 October 2009 - 12:28 AM.

[TheBearJew]

It's based on your hire date. Not age. The age only applies to the engineers in your class as you all have the same hire date. Of course people that have class dates after yours will have a lower seniority. As I said it goes bay hire date.

Your not grasping this really well.  

[Gym_Class_Hero]

DC8SUPER72, on Oct 26 2009, 12:39 AM, said:

It's based on your hire date. Not age. The age only applies to the engineers in your class as you all have the same hire date. Of course people that have class dates after yours will have a lower seniority. As I said it goes bay hire date.

Your not grasping this really well.  

I put off doing my US History work, so I'm stuck right now doing it, possibly pulling an all nighter. I would love to be able to sleep right now...

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 26 October 2009 - 12:48 AM.