113 replies to this topic

[Nidhal]

Well he likes it    

[jonf]

Can't say that I mind it much either

[adriang]

jonf, on Dec 13 2004, 02:29 PM, said:

That's one thing Eric and I have in common....Pilots from both VAs refer to their CEOs as a dictator

Ahhhh but Jon ours is a Dictatuer

[Skybound]

adriang, on Dec 13 2004, 03:43 PM, said:

jonf, on Dec 13 2004, 02:29 PM, said:

That's one thing Eric and I have in common....Pilots from both VAs refer to their CEOs as a dictator

Ahhhh but Jon ours is a Dictatuer

Your post sort of lost its point with that spelling mistake...

[adriang]

Skybound, on Dec 13 2004, 03:50 PM, said:

adriang, on Dec 13 2004, 03:43 PM, said:

jonf, on Dec 13 2004, 02:29 PM, said:

That's one thing Eric and I have in common....Pilots from both VAs refer to their CEOs as a dictator

Ahhhh but Jon ours is a Dictatuer

Your post sort of lost its point with that spelling mistake...

Crap well its noon and I just woke up   

[dolbinau]

I may be abit late but I think the CEO Of Livewire is trying to (and I agree with him) that the FTG Does not have 1500 Active members..

For example, this forum has around 4,000 members I think it is now; However only about 100-200 of them are frequently active.

[Skybound]

True. However, it's well worth noting that there are different definitions for the word "active". Our definition is at least 1 PIREP / 3 months, LOA excluded & subtract those who are bound to be purged in the next quarterly round of cleanup from the grand total of "active" pilots.

[sq232]

We would probably have like...i dunno...3000-5000 members if we had no form of entrance exam, or time limit on PIREPS, only a small amount, however, would be "active"

[FlyBoy1988]

Hey Nyavaiator.... everything, and I mean EVERYTHING you have said so far has been immidiatly countered by everyone pro-group VA (including I, whom you have not even quoted to argue against)  in this thread.... then you come back and restate the exact same stuff, and, if you do have any change in what you said, you reword it only slightly differently, hoping you may make a point that has already lost sufficiant value.... Also, I find it funny when at first you said "oh I don't really have anything too much against FTG", when next you come back and say that you sent an email to them and, since you didn't get a reply to a RECOMMENDATION LETTER, now want nothing to do with them because of their quote "Arrogance ". Sounds like you do have something against us after all! What it seems like to me is that your own personal preferances were not served, thus you become discontent. And now, you whine on about the "wrongs" FTG commits!!???

Now, why the heck do you want to take away all prospective traffic into FTG (your quote:"As far as pilots go, if you want to join any VA they offer, please talk to me first and I can guarentee I can find a better one for you")??? Because you have built up a dislike for us, you now want to take us down.... despite whather you say you don't want that or not, that is the complete message I get out of that single quote...

You use appeals like "I just want the younger pilots to feel like a bundle of joy"  when in reality the goal of OUR VA may be different than yours... Please if its not your VA, and your not a part...Leave out!!!

Sir, these points show that your a bundle of enigmas in your arguements (i my opinion), and that your just restating arguements that have been undoughtedly been answered. If you don't agree with the answer fine, argue the answer...but to me your holding on to dead restatements...

Edited by FlyBoy1988, 13 December 2004 - 06:07 PM.

[FTG-ER]

erict, on Dec 12 2004, 02:09 PM, said:

You guys just don't get it.  Just because FTG is a group of VA's doesn't mean you have to fly for every VA in the group.  It's up to our members. They can choose to fly for one airline & aircraft type out of a single hub.

You guys are entitled to your opinion but in the end it really makes no difference.  As it is we have a very large, diverse & dynamic community.  Whether you like it or not we're going to continue to grow at a faster rate.  If you don't like the FTG you have my profound apologies.   

I Agree with Eric 100%. My Real World Pilot Opinion: While The Format is not the Most Realistic you CAN only fly one airline out of one hub. The FTG is a wonderful orinization. The Fourm Has At LEAST 200 Post Per Day. Also, Eric Does a wonderful job Managing the FTG.

[erict]

dolbinau, on Dec 13 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

I may be abit late but I think the CEO Of Livewire is trying to (and I agree with him) that the FTG Does not have 1500 Active members..

For example, this forum has around 4,000 members I think it is now; However only about 100-200 of them are frequently active.

In reality the FTG has 2 active members!

We just post PIREPs and join with new names 24/7.  It keeps both of us busy and it's a lot of fun.  

Ok seriously.

See for yourself.  These are the latest pilot reports:

http://www.cpavirtua.../ATPFlights.asp

If we have 2, 100, 500 or 1000 active pilots it's all good. We get many pilot reports every day, almost every hour - 24/7.  That's not bad in my book.

[nyaviator]

FlyBoy1988, on Dec 13 2004, 07:02 PM, said:

Hey Nyavaiator.... everything, and I mean EVERYTHING you have said so far has been immidiatly countered by everyone pro-group VA (including I, whom you have not even quoted to argue against)  in this thread.... then you come back and restate the exact same stuff, and, if you do have any change in what you said, you reword it only slightly differently, hoping you may make a point that has already lost sufficiant value.... Also, I find it funny when at first you said "oh I don't really have anything too much against FTG", when next you come back and say that you sent an email to them and, since you didn't get a reply to a RECOMMENDATION LETTER, now want nothing to do with them because of their quote "Arrogance ". Sounds like you do have something against us after all! What it seems like to me is that your own personal preferances were not served, thus you become discontent. And now, you whine on about the "wrongs" FTG commits!!???

Now, why the heck do you want to take away all prospective traffic into FTG (your quote:"As far as pilots go, if you want to join any VA they offer, please talk to me first and I can guarentee I can find a better one for you")??? Because you have built up a dislike for us, you now want to take us down.... despite whather you say you don't want that or not, that is the complete message I get out of that single quote...

You use appeals like "I just want the younger pilots to feel like a bundle of joy"  when in reality the goal of OUR VA may be different than yours... Please if its not your VA, and your not a part...Leave out!!!

Sir, these points show that your a bundle of enigmas in your arguements (i my opinion), and that your just restating arguements that have been undoughtedly been answered. If you don't agree with the answer fine, argue the answer...but to me your holding on to dead restatements...

I find it amazing that the original question to this poll was asking if you prefer belonging to a single VA or multiple VAs. And then the FTG group stepped in as always and made it sound like it was about them. Hint: It wasn't about you guys. In any event, for those of you who don't understand the definition of the word 'opinion', I don't understand why you are posting on this debate. The original topic is an opinion, and the bottom line is that my opinion is that I don't like the FTG (and yes, I did pass the entrance exam). I have nothing against it's members, staff, or anything but don't try to make me like it because I don't, and it is my opinion. The whole thing with arrogance were some reasons that I don't like the FTG. If others like the FTG, good for them, that's their opinion. And no, I don't have anything against the FTG, it's just not my taste.  

Hint: There is no need to counter a person's opinion.

Anyone want to talk about the original question, maybe before they come back and try to change my opinion again because they think I may pose a threat to their VA?

Edited by nyaviator, 13 December 2004 - 10:37 PM.

[FlyBoy1988]

Opinions ARE the topic of all debates my friend! To to say it's wrong to debate an opinion is completely backwards... But to get to the point, we don't care if you like us, and we don't want to sway your opinion. We're just defending our turf, as would anyone who has been spoken of like such. And, if you hadn't wanted to bring the FTG into this poll, all you had to do was NOT MENTION US IN THE QUESTION!!!! So, again, I am not seeing your true motive, nor any reason why I cannot counter your remarks which I personally believe the FTG has done quite well so far. Want to talk about the "real" question that started this whole thing?? We've been doing it the whole time....

[FTG-ER]

FlyBoy1988, on Dec 13 2004, 10:41 PM, said:

Opinions ARE the topic of all debates my friend! To to say it's wrong to debate an opinion is completely backwards... But to get to the point, we don't care if you like us, and we don't want to sway your opinion. We're just defending our turf, as would anyone who has been spoken of like such. And, if you hadn't wanted to bring the FTG into this poll, all you had to do was NOT MENTION US IN THE QUESTION!!!! So, again, I am not seeing your true motive, nor any reason why I cannot counter your remarks which I personally believe the FTG has done quite well so far. Want to talk about the "real" question that started this whole thing?? We've been doing it the whole time....

Here Here!

[nyaviator]

FlyBoy1988, on Dec 13 2004, 11:41 PM, said:

Opinions ARE the topic of all debates my friend! To to say it's wrong to debate an opinion is completely backwards... But to get to the point, we don't care if you like us, and we don't want to sway your opinion. We're just defending our turf, as would anyone who has been spoken of like such. And, if you hadn't wanted to bring the FTG into this poll, all you had to do was NOT MENTION US IN THE QUESTION!!!! So, again, I am not seeing your true motive, nor any reason why I cannot counter your remarks which I personally believe the FTG has done quite well so far. Want to talk about the "real" question that started this whole thing?? We've been doing it the whole time....

The only reason I included your name in the poll is because it was the best example. And if you don't want to sway my opinion, then shut up. All of your replies are trying to attack me personally. Have you ever thought of the other 1,000 people viewing this debate. Why don't you attack one of their opinions. And the bottomline is still, this poll was not about you.

[FlyBoy1988]

The poll was about us blindman!!! Otherwise you wouldnt have said FTG! And to say your mad at us for replying to you well, welcome to life man!!

[Grogs]

i found FTG through Google, and i like the fact that you can basically fly whenever you want.

[nyaviator]

FlyBoy1988, on Dec 13 2004, 11:59 PM, said:

The poll was about us blindman!!! Otherwise you wouldnt have said FTG! And to say your mad at us for replying to you well, welcome to life man!!

NO IT WASN'T! If I wanted to, I would have said "Do you like the FTG or not?", maybe I should do that. You people can't get it through your heads that THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU. Go away, this discussion is for people openly discussing a topic, do you fly for one VA or multiple VAs, most of us don't want to talk about the FTG group and their politics. Yes, I used you as an example because it was a good example, everyone knows about you, and many people, including myself (for the 20th time today), don't like you. I think if I made a poll right now, do you like the FTGs, I trust many people would say no because they see how you're making a fool out of yourself and your company. This could have been a simple, opinonized discussion, but the big FTG group thought we were trying to attack them so they turn it into a war zone. I think I'm going to have to re-register here because you've made me look bad also.

Edited by nyaviator, 13 December 2004 - 11:21 PM.

[erict]

nyaviator, on Dec 13 2004, 11:21 PM, said:

NO IT WASN'T! If I wanted to, I would have said "Do you like the FTG or not?", maybe I should do that. You people can't get it through your heads that THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU. Go away, this discussion is for people openly discussing a topic, do you fly for one VA or multiple VAs, most of us don't want to talk about the FTG group and their politics. Yes, I used you as an example because it was a good example, everyone knows about you, and many people, including myself (for the 20th time today), don't like you. I think if I made a poll right now, do you like the FTGs, I trust many people would say no because they see how you're making a fool out of yourself and your company. This could have been a simple, opinonized discussion, but the big FTG group thought we were trying to attack them so they turn it into a war zone. I think I'm going to have to re-register here because you've made me look bad also.

Well here's the evidence.

1) nyaviator's first post & the poll specifically mentions "The Flying Tigers Group"

2) Cperea92, someone who has always had a personal vendetta with our group agrees.  SO why he ever joined is beyond me.

3) Scavers agrees

4) Madog states the obvious  

5) cperea92 makes another dumb remark about our group

6) nyaviator says the FTG entrance exam is obnoxious

and so on.

To me it definitely does not look like a poll that was made in good faith.  

If it was made in good faith nyaviator would not have specifically pointed out any group or VA in particular.  That nyaviator used the FTG only as an example is total BS and he knows it, look at his initial posts.

That's why I stepped in to counter this nonsense.  We have very legitimate reasons to operate the way we do without people spreading misinformation, lies and hatemongering about our group.

& nyaviator thanks for starting this thread.  Since this whole episode started our sign ups have doubled.

Cheers!

Edited by erict, 14 December 2004 - 12:52 AM.

[jonf]

Hehe, isn't it funny how that works. Any purblicity is good publicity. Most people will make up their own minds and a thread like this just attracts attention. Threads that involve Livewire bashing are always my favorite. Signups always go up when people are putting us down Sometimes I'll fan the flames just to keep the thread going