248 replies to this topic

[Cactus]

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

[THBatMan8]

Duke, on Jan 17 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

Erm, I forgot about the RAT.

Edited by THBatMan8, 17 January 2009 - 09:22 PM.

[Cactus]

A few more details courtesy an NTSB News Conference:

Quote

The F/O said that somewhere between 2500 and 5000 feet he saw a flock of birds to the right of the airplane and thought they'd be above the birds. The flock was in a line formation (not in V-formation) and perfectly spaced. When the Capt looked up from the instruments, he saw the windscreen "filled with birds", big dark brown birds. They heard several booms, both engines ran down resulting in total loss of thrust, the power loss was symmetrical. The Capt took control of the airplane ("my aircraft" responded by the F/O with "your aircraft"), the F/O began to execute the dual engine failure checklist, a long 3-page checklist thought to normally be performed at cruise altitude. The checklist was never completed until touchdown, therefore the "ditch button" was not activated.

Edited by Duke, 17 January 2009 - 10:58 PM.

[THBatMan8]

Duke, on Jan 17 2009, 10:58 PM, said:

A few more details courtesy an NTSB News Conference:

Quote

The F/O said that somewhere between 2500 and 5000 feet he saw a flock of birds to the right of the airplane and thought they'd be above the birds. The flock was in a line formation (not in V-formation) and perfectly spaced. When the Capt looked up from the instruments, he saw the windscreen "filled with birds", big dark brown birds. They heard several booms, both engines ran down resulting in total loss of thrust, the power loss was symmetrical. The Capt took control of the airplane ("my aircraft" responded by the F/O with "your aircraft"), the F/O began to execute the dual engine failure checklist, a long 3-page checklist thought to normally be performed at cruise altitude. The checklist was never completed until touchdown, therefore the "ditch button" was not activated.

So all those original press reports were wrong then?  

Edited by THBatMan8, 17 January 2009 - 11:08 PM.

[_NW_]

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

So all those original press reports were wrong then?  

Like that's a surprise

[Independence76]

Look at this video.

I still can't believe how anyone could survive that...

LtFrsa7Yico&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Edited by Independence76, 18 January 2009 - 02:13 AM.

[aviatordom]

photo of the a/c out of the water

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/7835939.stm

Bit of a wreck!

[Flying_Scotsman]

Why don't you believe it.  The pilot done hos job, made a smooth dead stick landing onto water, something I would expect 99% of airlines pilots to be able to do.  The crew and passengers had a few minutes to prepare for what was really a normal landing but with huge deceleration which the human body can withstand no problem.  Well done to the pilot and a big well done to Airbus for building such a strong aircraft.

[aviatordom]

Duke, on Jan 18 2009, 01:42 AM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

Isn't it the norm to switch the APU GEN's on and then switch the APU off after engine startup?

Correct me if i'm wrong, of-course, i'm not entirely sure

[THBatMan8]

NWilkinson, on Jan 18 2009, 01:35 AM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

So all those original press reports were wrong then?  

Like that's a surprise

Yeah no surprise there. I kinda thought they didn't have enough time to set the plane up from a complete engine shutdown @ 3000FT. Ive seen some of those carrier checklists

[THBatMan8]

A32X, on Jan 18 2009, 05:34 AM, said:

Duke, on Jan 18 2009, 01:42 AM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

Isn't it the norm to switch the APU GEN's on and then switch the APU off after engine startup?

Correct me if i'm wrong, of-course, i'm not entirely sure

Sometimes if the flight crew anticipates a delay in departure the APU is left on until after takeoff so the engines can be shut off to save fuel.

Edited by THBatMan8, 18 January 2009 - 07:21 AM.

[Pavehawk]

I'm suprised THESE Guys survived this.

[bigflyersmallbyer]

Ironically if you look in the background of the USCG video you can see concorde

[kenair744]

THBatMan8, on Jan 18 2009, 08:12 AM, said:

A32X, on Jan 18 2009, 05:34 AM, said:

Duke, on Jan 18 2009, 01:42 AM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

Isn't it the norm to switch the APU GEN's on and then switch the APU off after engine startup?

Correct me if i'm wrong, of-course, i'm not entirely sure

Sometimes if the flight crew anticipates a delay in departure the APU is left on until after takeoff so the engines can be shut off to save fuel.

Actually happened to me - the United 737-300 was delayed on the sidelines for up to 1 hour in Dallas, due to the weather in Chicago...

[89-LX]

THBatMan8, on Jan 18 2009, 07:12 AM, said:

A32X, on Jan 18 2009, 05:34 AM, said:

Duke, on Jan 18 2009, 01:42 AM, said:

THBatMan8, on Jan 17 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

Or they could have had the APU running from takeoff.

True, the SOP at my airline is to minimize APU usage and it's usually turned off during departure, so hard to know.

Isn't it the norm to switch the APU GEN's on and then switch the APU off after engine startup?

Correct me if i'm wrong, of-course, i'm not entirely sure

Sometimes if the flight crew anticipates a delay in departure the APU is left on until after takeoff so the engines can be shut off to save fuel.

APU can be left on to provide extra thrust on the engines for takeoff also, or in the event of an engine failure to provide extra thrust to the remaining engine.

[_NW_]

89-LX, on Jan 18 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

APU can be left on to provide extra thrust on the engines for takeoff also, or in the event of an engine failure to provide extra thrust to the remaining engine.

You're joking..  right?  

APU's don't provide thrust.  Yes, they do blow out hot air, and that's probably enough thrust to get a 1500 pound plane moving..  but not a 169,000 pound airliner...   that's like blowing air out of your mouth to propel your bicycle.

[Mr. Schutte]

NWilkinson, on Jan 18 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

that's like blowing air out of your mouth to propel your bicycle.

!

[kenair744]

http://news.yahoo.co...kvZmbnBbY1vzwcF
Update:

Quote

NEW YORK – Federal investigators say the flight data recorder of the US Airways jet that made a safe emergency landing in the Hudson River shows the aircraft reached a maximum altitude of 3,200 feet and lost power simultaneously in both engines.

[SunCountry737]

89-LX, on Jan 18 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

APU can be left on to provide extra thrust on the engines for takeoff also, or in the event of an engine failure to provide extra thrust to the remaining engine.

Are you kiddng me!? Where did you get that idea!? The APU is there to provide electrical power and bleed air for the packs/starting engines.

[kenair744]

Please check Google:

Quote

APU stands for Auxilary Power Unit and is used mainly in commercial jets to produce electricity whilst parked at a gate with the engines turned off. An APU is a small engine, situated at the base of the tail of a plane (in most cases) that can be turned on if ground support is not offered. The APU is also used to start the engines of the plane as this required a great, sudden burst of power which in some cases, the standard battery alone cannot supply.

http://www.aerospace...er/b737-apu.jpg
This is the actual APU of Boeing 737:



Tell me: Look at the exit of APU of the 737 - is that strong enough to provide thrust!?!?!?  

Edited by kenair744, 18 January 2009 - 04:57 PM.