87 replies to this topic

[_NW_]

89-LX, on Feb 13 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

ust saw the latest news that the plane pretty much started pitching and rolling when the gear was lowered. I am calling it right now - tail stall. They thought it was a wing stall, pitched down and applied full power which aggrivated the tail stall even worst.

Which is what I thought at first..   Tail stalls are more common in T-tail aircraft, and very few (if any at all) have any icing protection.  Most leading edges of the horizontal elevators are covered in a rubber boot, but it does not inflate like leading edge inflatable rubber boots.  Other companies will duct hot air along the leading edge, but I can't think of a single aircraft that has ice protection on the horizontal stabilizer.  

The recovery for a tail stall is opposite of a wing stall, so failure to recognize the tail stall can lead up to a crash.  The other thing is, pilots have no indication if there is ice build up on the horizontal stabilizer, however they can assume there is if there is icing on the wings or on the windshield.

[Ozzyfrog]

avherald

Sounds like it happened just after they lowered the flaps. Flap failure maybe?

[_NW_]

franthree, on Feb 13 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

Anyone know about the De-Icing boots the Dash -8 has--they inflate I guess? Mr. NWilkinson ?

The wings have pneumatic wing boots, meaning they inflate on automatic cycles (when the switch is turned on) or manually.  The leading edge of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers have a rubber boot (non-pneumatic), I'm not sure if it's electric heated or not.  

The rubber boot on the horizontal stabilizer of the King Air is not electrically heated, it's just a rubber boot.

Ozzyfrog, on Feb 14 2009, 12:46 AM, said:

avherald

Sounds like it happened just after they lowered the flaps. Flap failure maybe?

Doubt it.  Tail stalls are more prone to occur after flaps and/or gear is extended, basically anything that slows the aircraft down.

[Ozzyfrog]

Ah yes, that would make a lot of sense.

[likebernie4]

Sadly, today I learned that my 2nd cousin Jennifer passed away in the plane crash. She was 23, engaged, and pregnant.

RIP!

[Buziel-411_RED]

Poseidon, on Feb 14 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

Sadly, today I learned that my 2nd cousin Jennifer passed away in the plane crash. She was 23, engaged, and pregnant.

RIP!

Sorry to hear that. RIP

[Prancer]

Isn't that the second time a plane crashed into a house this year and killed someone on the ground? (The other being the F/A-18.)

[aviatordom]

Poseidon, on Feb 14 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

Sadly, today I learned that my 2nd cousin Jennifer passed away in the plane crash. She was 23, engaged, and pregnant.

RIP!

I'm very, very sorry to hear that. May she RIP. My condolences to yourself & your family

[suraj]

I hate reading about this, and I feel so bad for the families. But I realised today cause my mom was telling me are you sure you want to be  a pilot after this happening and I told her, its the about same chance as someone coming to our school and shooting people in the building and killing a lot of people, because there are so many schools and so many children attending school, just the same as, so many planes going up in one day, and how many crash out of that many and are fatal, so people that feel discouraged from flying shouldn't because then they shouldn't go to work, or they shouldn't go to school after hearing about an incident where someone came to a school or work and shot 10 people and killed them.

Thats just my opinion though, and I thought I'd share.

[VFR_Pierre]

Sad stuff... RIP

[SunCountry737]

89-LX, on Feb 13 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

They thought it was a wing stall, pitched down and applied full power which aggrivated the tail stall even worst.

Stick shaker and pusher might have helped with that too.

[Ozzyfrog]

The NTSB now know that the aircraft was facing the wrong direction when it hit the ground (NE instead of SW), and the it hit the ground with a flat approach (not a nose dive). Seems to make sense with the stall theory.

And I'm sorry to hear about Posiedon's sad news. May she RIP, and my condolences with you and your family.  

[likebernie4]

Thanks everyone. Any ideas on how it went from facing SW to NE?

Edited by Poseidon, 15 February 2009 - 09:15 AM.

[aviatordom]

Poseidon, on Feb 15 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

Thanks everyone. Any ideas on how it went from facing SW to NE?

Crew struggling to keep control of the a/c?

Perhaps they were looking for an open stretch of water or land to minimize fatalities?

The CVR transcript could provide clues when it is released(Y)

[coffeebeans]

That house is not far from my great aunt. My father and I have driven right below the final approach for that runway countless times when going to Buffalo.


RIP

[Faucett]

Just to show how utterly clueless the media is when aviation is concerned, here was the front page of the New York Post the day after the crash -



Unbelievable.

[Chris.]

Well, in a literal sense a turbo-prop aircraft is a jet, since it works on the same pressure and combustion methods a turbofan would use.

[Yeah]

TBH, I would probably find "JET CRASH" to be more interesting than "TURBO-PROP CRASH". Maybe it was to sell more papers?

[FL050]

A32X, on Feb 15 2009, 10:32 AM, said:

Poseidon, on Feb 15 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

Thanks everyone. Any ideas on how it went from facing SW to NE?

Crew struggling to keep control of the a/c?

Perhaps they were looking for an open stretch of water or land to minimize fatalities?

The CVR transcript could provide clues when it is released(Y)

Probably a tail stall that developed into a flat spin due to the crew probably adding power to get out of the stall.

[Cactus]

A32X, on Feb 15 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

Perhaps they were looking for an open stretch of water or land to minimize fatalities?

Given they wouldn't even have been able to see the ground .... I highly doubt that.

SunCountry737, on Feb 15 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Stick shaker and pusher might have helped with that too.

Are there even Stick Pushers installed on aircraft anymore? I thought that died in the 1950s/1960s.

suraj, on Feb 14 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

But I realised today cause my mom was telling me are you sure you want to be  a pilot after this happening and I told her, its the about same chance as someone coming to our school and shooting people in the building and killing a lot of people, because there are so many schools and so many children attending school, just the same as, so many planes going up in one day, and how many crash out of that many and are fatal, so people that feel discouraged from flying shouldn't because then they shouldn't go to work, or they shouldn't go to school after hearing about an incident where someone came to a school or work and shot 10 people and killed them.

Holy run-on-sentence, Batman.