115 replies to this topic

[David_Lee_Roth]

βцziεł-411, on Jul 30 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

http://cbs11tv.com/l....2.1108058.html

Quote

Southwest Airlines Co. is seeking to trump a rival bid and acquire Frontier Airlines, a Denver-based carrier operating under bankruptcy protection.

A court had already approved the sale of Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc. to the parent of Republic Airways for $108.8 million, but that deal can be nixed if a better offer comes along.

Dallas-based Southwest said it submitted a nonbinding bid of $113.6 million. Southwest hopes that making the bid will allow it to talk with Frontier and get information to help shape its final proposal.

Southwest said it faces an Aug. 10 deadline for submitting a binding bid. If there is more than one qualified bidder, an auction will be held the following day.

"We are excited about the opportunity to submit a bid," Southwest CEO Gary Kelly said in a statement. "We see a strong fit between our company cultures, a mutual commitment to high quality customer Service, and similar entrepreneurial roots."

Southwest recently went back into the Denver market, where it competes against Frontier and United.

Shares of Southwest rose sharply on the news. They were up 33 cents, or 4.4 percent, to $7.84 in afternoon trading.

Whatever happens, I just hope they don't paint the Frontier Airbus fleet in Southwest colors. It would look terrible.

I'm wondering what they're thinking by adding not just a different type of plane, but a different manufacturer, going against their traditional stance to keep one type.

[roboa]

Yes but if they use the frontier pilots and maintenence then they already have resources to operate the aircraft and maintain them without the need to retrain crew and other staff

[Cactus]

They can still operate as a separate business unit....

[03SVTCobra]

I love Frontier, I hope whoever buys them doesn't change much.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Oh god, not more merging. I guess the phrase "A whole different animal" is pretty empty if your just going along with this consolidation trend...

TBH I don't see Frontier biting. Sure, they used to be a failing airline but now they turned it around and are very profitable. They are doing fine on their own. Aren't mergers usually just a last-ditch attempt to keep from going under?

I'm with Duke on this one though. If they do merge, they will likely operate as seperate entities (like Lufthansa and Swiss), it's just easier that way. Plus those animal tails will continue to grace the skies.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 30 July 2009 - 11:39 PM.

[Cortez]

Didn't Frontier just get bought out by a regional or something?

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Cortez, on Jul 31 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

Didn't Frontier just get bought out by a regional or something?

Yeah, but Republic was probably going to leave Frontier the way it was. The only difference is that Frontier would be owned by Republic. Southwest wants to do an eventual full integration (just checked the Flight Global article, I think it's  BS).

Like I said, this is BS. Southwest does NOT want to grow, the only reason they are trying to merge with them is to destroy them. After the merger, the Airbus fleet would get dumped, along with most employees. The only benefit to Southwest is that a competitor has been squeezed out of business, and they get a few more gates at DEN (a proverbial war zone). That's it. A merger for growth is one thing, but a merger just to destroy a competitor is just unethical business, very troubling indeed.

Honestly, has business gotten so cut-throat that merging has gone from a form of growth to a form of sabotage? Time for some regulation, stat...

BTW why Frontier? I heard Airtran at one time was trying to merge with them? Why does everyone want them?

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 31 July 2009 - 12:27 AM.

[03SVTCobra]

Gym_Class_Hero, on Jul 30 2009, 11:36 PM, said:

Oh god, not more merging. I guess the phrase "A whole different animal" is pretty empty if your just going along with this consolidation trend...

TBH I don't see Frontier biting. Sure, they used to be a failing airline but now they turned it around and are very profitable. They are doing fine on their own. Aren't mergers usually just a last-ditch attempt to keep from going under?

I'm with Duke on this one though. If they do merge, they will likely operate as seperate entities (like Lufthansa and Swiss), it's just easier that way. Plus those animal tails will continue to grace the skies.

Frontier has no choice. They are controlled by the federal government at the moment and are basically doing what they've been told at the moment. The bid that Republic proposed had to be brought before court and approved. Southwest has entered a counter offer, that doesn't mean the government will force Frontier to accept Southwest's offer, but I'm sure they will be "strongly encouraged" to.

They have definitely turned things around but unfortunately they still haven't been able to record enough of a margin to pay their debts.

Therefore they will either have to accept one of the two offers, which may depend on what each airline has planned for Frontier. As far as I know Republic had planned on operating Frontier as a subsidiary, and keeping the Frontier staff in place. Southwest hasn't stated it's intentions, but I would be VERY surprised if they were to dump all Frontier's assets and takeover it's gates in Denver.

However if Southwest does mention plans liquidating the airline and taking over concourse A, then Frontier may decide to settle for less cash while continuing to operate.

Auctions are scheduled for Aug. 10th if no deal goes through. In which case a whole lot of brand new Airbuses will be available at cut rate prices.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

03SVTCobra, on Jul 31 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

Gym_Class_Hero, on Jul 30 2009, 11:36 PM, said:

Oh god, not more merging. I guess the phrase "A whole different animal" is pretty empty if your just going along with this consolidation trend...

TBH I don't see Frontier biting. Sure, they used to be a failing airline but now they turned it around and are very profitable. They are doing fine on their own. Aren't mergers usually just a last-ditch attempt to keep from going under?

I'm with Duke on this one though. If they do merge, they will likely operate as seperate entities (like Lufthansa and Swiss), it's just easier that way. Plus those animal tails will continue to grace the skies.

Frontier has no choice. They are controlled by the federal government at the moment and are basically doing what they've been told at the moment. The bid that Republic proposed had to be brought before court and approved. Southwest has entered a counter offer, that doesn't mean the government will force Frontier to accept Southwest's offer, but I'm sure they will be "strongly encouraged" to.

They have definitely turned things around but unfortunately they still haven't been able to record enough of a margin to pay their debts.

Therefore they will either have to accept one of the two offers, which may depend on what each airline has planned for Frontier. As far as I know Republic had planned on operating Frontier as a subsidiary, and keeping the Frontier staff in place. Southwest hasn't stated it's intentions, but I would be VERY surprised if they were to dump all Frontier's assets and takeover it's gates in Denver.

However if Southwest does mention plans liquidating the airline and taking over concourse A, then Frontier may decide to settle for less cash while continuing to operate.

Auctions are scheduled for Aug. 10th if no deal goes through. In which case a whole lot of brand new Airbuses will be available at cut rate prices.

Southwest Airlines stated that in the end Frontier would become part of them (The animals will be migrating to the desert, and hopefully won't be euthenized ), which is why I find this so suspicious. In most mergers, the goal is growth, meaning that some of each carriers fleet is kept, making growth. This is NOT happening here. Southwest doesn't want to grow WITH Frontier, they want to grow after KILLING OFF Frontier. No new planes, a handful of new employees, and a handful of gates. Sounds like an attack/sabotage to me.

Even though the Republic offer is slightly smaller, I would think the court would side with it because Frontier would remain basically intact. While the Southwest offer is bigger, it would destroy them.

Frontier started making a consistant profit at the end of last year, and has not has a loss since. Why such a rush to force a merger with someone? This seems like a "wait and see" situation. Who knows, a couple more good quarters and they might be able to run sustainably by themselves.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 31 July 2009 - 01:13 AM.

[wyoairbus]

03SVTCobra, on Jul 30 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

I love Frontier, I hope whoever buys them doesn't change much.

same here. which is why o think southwest would be a good buyer, because according to the FAQ on their website over this they roughly state "nothing will change from the costumer perspective"


EDIT - gym class hero, i do not think this is a merger, not like we are going to be seeing southwest colors on airbuses and thank god none of the beautiful frontier planes dissipearing. the FAQ on southwests' website has a lot of info.

my main concern is how much of frontier would remain denver based

Edited by wyoairbus, 31 July 2009 - 03:06 PM.

[Cactus]

Also, LET FLIP FLY!!!

[Gym_Class_Hero]

wyoairbus, on Jul 31 2009, 03:04 PM, said:

03SVTCobra, on Jul 30 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

I love Frontier, I hope whoever buys them doesn't change much.

same here. which is why o think southwest would be a good buyer, because according to the FAQ on their website over this they roughly state "nothing will change from the costumer perspective"


EDIT - gym class hero, i do not think this is a merger, not like we are going to be seeing southwest colors on airbuses and thank god none of the beautiful frontier planes dissipearing. the FAQ on southwests' website has a lot of info.

my main concern is how much of frontier would remain denver based

You would really trust Southwest? Republic was going to keep Frontier the way it is (why would they be getting new A320s if they thought Republic would be downsizing them?). They got SIDELINED by Southwest, because they are afraid of Frontier and it's potential. Southwest doesn't want to grow, they just want Frontier DEAD. If they really wanted to grow, they would have put up a bid when Republic did. This is sabotage, plain and simple.

Nothing will change in the short term, but in the long term, the A320s will be dumped (Southwest will probably have the A318s scrapped, that program was a mistake IMO), as for the employees, it is unfortunatally up in the air. Lord knows what they mean by a "passenger perspective", that could mean anything. Southwest will probably start jacking up fairs on ex-Frontier routes (especially DEN), becuase flyers will have no where else to go.

One thing is for sure though, if they take over Frontier, they'de better put DirectTV in those 737s, because I know they'll start losing ex-Frontier customers if they don't.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 31 July 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Nuts about Southwest blogs...

http://www.blogsouth...ontier-airlines
http://www.blogsouth...ontier-airlines

Now I KNOW we have some Southwest fanboys on this forum who dream about a one night stand with Mr. Kelly and take every press release like gospel, but no matter how they try and spin this, remember that this is NOT like Southwest's other mergers in the 90s. Muse and Morris had no future, they were doomed if left on their own. Frontier is going to leave Ch.11 in the near future, they are profitable, and if left alone, would survive. Let me un-spin some of what they have said, and give you a little thing I like to call the facts.

Quote

There are, of course, some service differences between the two carriers. Frontier offers assigned seating for example, while Southwest is proud of our popular open seating environment. Frontier charges for the first two checked bags (in Economy), while Southwest does not.  As part of our due diligence work we look forward to learning about our differences, and looking for ways to continue to improve Southwest's service offering.  What won't change is our legendary Customer Service.

REALITY - Better break out the book Frontier flyers, looks like your lossing the IFE.

Quote

I hope that Frontier Employees can take some comfort in the fact that Southwest has a 38-year track record of excellent Employee relations, treating people with respect, excellent union relationships, and industry leading pay.

REALITY - That was the 90s Southwest that took in DEAD airlines. They have changed since then. Frontier is NOT dead, they're about to emerge from Ch.11! This isn't about saving a dead airline, it's about killing a good one. If they were dead and Southwest was interested in picking up the pieces, they would have placed a bid a long time ago. Whose the "Whole different animal" now?

Quote

As we've said, Frontier would continue to operate independently and separately for a period of time with its existing Airbus aircraft and personnel.  Over time, however, Frontier employees would be hired into Southwest as needed to support our fleet growth and expanded operations.  

REALITY - Get the unemployment section, looks like your jobs not garuanteed (unlike the 90s mergers ).

The good news though is that the judge in this case supports small business, so hopefully he will side with Republic.

Edited by Gym_Class_Hero, 01 August 2009 - 01:39 AM.

[fredrick_thy_grt]

I know a Captain at Frontier, he said that "The Bond-McCaskill bill" that came out of the screw-job that AA did to TWA will hopefully guarantee them jobs there.

I hate Southwest as it is, if they kill my Frontier I will hate them with an intense burning passion.         

Frontier is a wonderful airline, I would hate to see them go, but Southwest has VERY deep pockets so if they want it they could take it.

[_TW_]

Doesn't look too bad at all!  

Edited by Toby Werner, 05 August 2009 - 05:31 PM.

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Toby Werner, on Aug 5 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

Doesn't look too bad at all!  

Awful.

[tropicalfish]

^ Obviously 'shopped.