137 replies to this topic

[FlyThomsenX]

Hi mates,


I know this type of thread is a path well trodden, but this is something I would very much like answered, or at least get some other views on.

I am 18, turning 19 soon. Since I started walking, I've had an urge to be an airline captain. Not necessarily flying the biggest jets around, I really prefer regional or at least medium-distance flights, or helicopters. Anyway, since an ATPL(A) is $107,000 and a CPL(H) is $98,000, I'm - obviously - not able to afford it now, especially with no regular income and no specialized education.

I've always attended Waldorf schools in the 11 years I have been in school. This year I chose to leave school and work as a volunteer in the United States. That means that I have no grades, GPA's or any rating that I can use to apply to university.

THOUGH what I've been thinking about lately is becoming an aircraft maintenance engineer (4½ years, no cost), then applying to the Pilot Bachelor program ( <- link ) (3 years, no cost) offered by the University of Tromsø, Norway. If I am not accepted (they only accept very few students each half-year), I upgrade my AME degree to a B.Eng (2-3 years, no cost).

Economy: I will get around $500-700 from the government if I live on my own (which I will have to if I study as an AME) up until the age of 25, and student salary (around $1800) during the AME study when I am in work training.



Thoughts on this scheme?


Sincerely,

- Tom

[thebennny]

FlyThomsenX, on Feb 14 2012, 12:22 AM, said:

Hi mates,
I know this type of thread is a path well trodden, but this is something I would very much like answered, or at least get some other views on.

I am 18, turning 19 soon. Since I started walking, I've had an urge to be an airline captain. Not necessarily flying the biggest jets around, I really prefer regional or at least medium-distance flights, or helicopters. Anyway, since an ATPL(A) is $107,000 and a CPL(H) is $98,000, I'm - obviously - not able to afford it now, especially with no regular income and no specialized education.

I've always attended Waldorf schools in the 11 years I have been in school. This year I chose to leave school and work as a volunteer in the United States. That means that I have no grades, GPA's or any rating that I can use to apply to university.

THOUGH what I've been thinking about lately is becoming an aircraft maintenance engineer (4½ years, no cost), then applying to the Pilot Bachelor program ( <- link ) (3 years, no cost) offered by the University of Tromsø, Norway. If I am not accepted (they only accept very few students each half-year), I upgrade my AME degree to a B.Eng (2-3 years, no cost).

Economy: I will get around $500-700 from the government if I live on my own (which I will have to if I study as an AME) up until the age of 25, and student salary (around $1800) during the AME study when I am in work training.
Thoughts on this scheme?
Sincerely,

- Tom

I like your enthusiasm, but I'm not sure why becoming an AME would lead to becoming a pilot.  Don't assume it will be easy becoming an AME. There is a massive amount of quite intense study waiting for you. You need to know the aircraft you're working on like the back of your hand to diagnose faults. You need confidence and knowledge of procedures and policies. And you definitely need hand skills. Back when I did handskills training, we had to file a piece of steel perfectly square (in both directions) and it was checked to the thou with vernier calipers.

[Toshiba-the-3rd]

Not sure where your getting $107,000 for a ATPL from seems about 30-40% too high. Becoming a engineer could be a plan, the school I'm at has a fair few engineering bods floating around ( like a bad smell   ) and it seems that engineers get taken up at a higher rate than pilots, plus the whole gives you a fallback career incase of loss of medical blah blah blah.
Couldnt be a engineer myself a) can't be trusted with sharp/ pointy/ fragile (delete as appropriate) things and try to construct some flat pack over the weekend gave up after 20 minutes still havent done it ...

[Peter797]

Prospects for a pilot career are pretty good now. The outlook on future years presents a shortage of pilots, especially in Asia, so if all goes well, that's where I'm planning to go once I'm done flight school.

There'll be lots of people on here telling you how you'll be living in a trailer, making no money, and you'll be a poor man trying to live a dream. Don't listen to them, since they either don't have persistence or the balls for that matter to get into it, and try to demotivate the rest.

Just my two cents.

[- M.Parker -]

Peter797, on Feb 13 2012, 06:08 PM, said:

Prospects for a pilot career are pretty good now. The outlook on future years presents a shortage of pilots, especially in Asia, so if all goes well, that's where I'm planning to go once I'm done flight school.

There'll be lots of people on here telling you how you'll be living in a trailer, making no money, and you'll be a poor man trying to live a dream. Don't listen to them, since they either don't have persistence or the balls for that matter to get into it, and try to demotivate the rest.

Just my two cents.

My thoughts exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Brandon-M]

Peter797, on Feb 13 2012, 05:08 PM, said:

Prospects for a pilot career are pretty good now. The outlook on future years presents a shortage of pilots, especially in Asia, so if all goes well, that's where I'm planning to go once I'm done flight school.

There'll be lots of people on here telling you how you'll be living in a trailer, making no money, and you'll be a poor man trying to live a dream. Don't listen to them, since they either don't have persistence or the balls for that matter to get into it, and try to demotivate the rest.

Just my two cents.

Ooooooh that will piss off a couple members i can think of

[Peter797]

ah well, I speak the truth.

[THBatMan8]

Peter797, on Feb 13 2012, 07:22 PM, said:

ah well, I speak the truth.

So do we.

If you want to find out the hard way, be my guest.

Peter797, on Feb 13 2012, 05:08 PM, said:

There'll be lots of people on here telling you how you'll be living in a trailer, making no money, and you'll be a poor man trying to live a dream. Don't listen to them, since they either don't have persistence or the balls for that matter to get into it, and try to demotivate the rest.

This mindset is exactly why aviation will never change. Not everyone has parents with deep pockets, so do you expect them to live in poverty?

I know what your answer will be. "They are working their 'dream job'". News flash: the real world doesn't work like that. Having a steady income is more important than working your 'dream job'. Another news flash: there is no such thing as the perfect job.

Flying for fun and flying commercially are 2 completely different concepts. Just because you love to fly doesn't mean you're able to command something like a 747.

Edited by THBatMan8, 14 February 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[LA_PHX]

Just go for it.  If that is what you really want to do, do it.  Many people will make it to where they want to be in the aviation industry and many people won't.  Just try your best to be one of the people that will.

At the end of the day, don't let anyone here deter you or sway you in any way.  You have to make the decision of what you want to do and will do.

Edited by LA_PHX, 14 February 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[Mumbles]

Like said before, just go for it. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, it's your life, you get to live it. If flying is what you want to do, then do it. As long as you give 110% you'll be fine.

[AmericanAirFan]

I will reiterate what several other people have said. If you love it and that's really what you want to do then don't let anyone stop you! However, you may start down the path and realize soon that it is not for you. That's ok. Better to know sooner than later though.

Me personally I love flying on a professional level and that really is something I can see myself doing for the rest of my life. It is a long bumpy road though! If it is truly your passion, then put on your helmet and start riding the bumpy road. It's an exciting road!

[Chief_Bean]

Quote

Career prospects?

Probably comparable to those of an English Lit graduate.

[Peter797]

THBatMan8, on Feb 14 2012, 09:49 AM, said:

So do we.

If you want to find out the hard way, be my guest.
This mindset is exactly why aviation will never change. Not everyone has parents with deep pockets, so do you expect them to live in poverty?

I know what your answer will be. "They are working their 'dream job'". News flash: the real world doesn't work like that. Having a steady income is more important than working your 'dream job'. Another news flash: there is no such thing as the perfect job.

Flying for fun and flying commercially are 2 completely different concepts. Just because you love to fly doesn't mean you're able to command something like a 747.

Have you commanded a 747, for 70 hours in a month, to be able to back up that last sentence? Because all the pilots I know seem to be pretty optimistic and happy guys. The guys working in cubicles seem to have the most issues in my eyes.

[LA_PHX]

Peter797, on Feb 14 2012, 04:53 PM, said:

The guys working in cubicles seem to have the most issues in my eyes.

Cubicles suck. That's why you get an office.

[SargeJr3]

Peter797, on Feb 14 2012, 04:53 PM, said:

Have you commanded a 747, for 70 hours in a month, to be able to back up that last sentence? Because all the pilots I know seem to be pretty optimistic and happy guys. The guys working in cubicles seem to have the most issues in my eyes.

Never been a commercial pilot, but I've worked in a job where I travelled 3+ weeks a month.  Sure, it was great seeing a different location every few days, and it was great to be on the road and have variety.  I enjoyed all the time i was there.  But at the same time, when you haven't been home in 22 days, haven't eaten a home cooked meal in 20+ days, or haven't had a day "off" - it gets really tiring.  It was impossible to make a relationship work (I tried); and was even harder being away from friends and family.  Over the course of that time, I spent 4 holidays away, several of my friends birthdays, my birthday, and became used to getting called at 2 in the morning.  Waking up at 4 to start the truck, such that you might be able to drive it by 515 also gets old after a while.  I travelled by bus, drove myself, and flew into several locations.  Hotels, airports, restaurants, trucks, planes, busses, that was my life.  By all means, I enjoyed it.  But it was not a pace I could keep up for 30+ years.

Point is, be careful what you wish for. Variety sounds neat, but certainly gets old after a while.  The best mix, IMHO, is one where your job is not entirely dependent on travel.  YMMV.

[suraj]

THBatMan8, on Feb 14 2012, 09:49 AM, said:

So do we.

If you want to find out the hard way, be my guest.
This mindset is exactly why aviation will never change. Not everyone has parents with deep pockets, so do you expect them to live in poverty?

I know what your answer will be. "They are working their 'dream job'". News flash: the real world doesn't work like that. Having a steady income is more important than working your 'dream job'. Another news flash: there is no such thing as the perfect job.

Flying for fun and flying commercially are 2 completely different concepts. Just because you love to fly doesn't mean you're able to command something like a 747.

the problem is people don't want to work for things. People that are flying airliners do have quite the dream job, especially who's parents that are pilots I have talked to. They love what they do, it's just getting there which was the hard part. If you truly have the determination, than you can achieve anything, even your dreams, I have seen it been done.

For instance, this one lady, she works for my grand parents in India, they have a helper system there, and she works for a lot of people, and doesn't make much money. She's been doing it since she has been really young. She had a child when she was very young. Growing up she was taught good family values, and because of that she is working very hard just so she can provide an education for her son. 20 years later she is putting her son through University where he is working on his engineering degree, and she is still working very hard just to help pay for his school. She literally brought her family up from the bottom, and gave her son the chance to lead a "normal" life.

All in all, I really think it's about using your head, and how determined you are. Yes she may have not had the life she was hoping for, however she gave that chance to her son, and from what she tells us, she wouldn't as for anything more than that. So all in all, she is absolutely thrilled to see him doing what he enjoys.

Edit: it all depends on your attitude towards life as well. Like Scavers said you have to know what you want, but if you do, please whatever you do, do not give up just because things don't go as planned. If you truly love it, remind yourself what you're working towards, and make your dreams come true. I know that sounds cliche, but like I said, I have seen people work their way up from the "bottom"

Edited by suraj, 15 February 2012 - 02:18 AM.

[AmericanAirFan]

SargeJr3, on Feb 15 2012, 01:39 AM, said:

Point is, be careful what you wish for. Variety sounds neat, but certainly gets old after a while.  The best mix, IMHO, is one where your job is not entirely dependent on travel.  YMMV.

I seem to run across the mentality a lot on this forum that the only FLYING jobs are just airlines, and the myth is that the job will take you away for weeks at a time.

This is true for some airlines, but not all. Generally pilots get some time on and some time off. 89-LX would know more than me about that. Basically it's not a normal 8-5 job, but you will have days of being gone and days of being home.

There are also other jobs out there. Skydiving pilots, flight instructors, sight seeing flights, pipeline patrol, part 91 commercial flight operations. Generally these jobs guarantee you will be home almost every night.

My current flight instructor does a lot of part 91 flying on the side. From what I see he is home every night. Some days he doesn't work at all. Some days he is gone until 3AM. All the flight instructors at my school are generally home every night. Maybe once or twice a semester, an instructor might go with two students on a cross country to places like Chicago or Denver. They're always home after being away only one or two nights. One of my friends I go to school with flies part time sky diving flights. He is home every night. Even being a cargo pilot at a small company flying Cessna 208s guarantees you a fairly consistent schedule.

Don't forget there is more out there than the big airlines.

[THBatMan8]

Peter797, on Feb 14 2012, 04:53 PM, said:

Have you commanded a 747, for 70 hours in a month, to be able to back up that last sentence? Because all the pilots I know seem to be pretty optimistic and happy guys. The guys working in cubicles seem to have the most issues in my eyes.

Every job has it's pet peeves. There is no such thing as the perfect job. Traveling for a living gets very old, very fast. If you want to have a personal life as well, this is not the job to get into as you will rarely be home. They will put on a false front to you because you are the general public with a interest in aviation, but you have no clue what goes on behind closed doors.

AmericanAirFan, on Feb 15 2012, 07:38 AM, said:

I seem to run across the mentality a lot on this forum that the only FLYING jobs are just airlines, and the myth is that the job will take you away for weeks at a time.

This is true for some airlines, but not all. Generally pilots get some time on and some time off. 89-LX would know more than me about that. Basically it's not a normal 8-5 job, but you will have days of being gone and days of being home.

There are also other jobs out there. Skydiving pilots, flight instructors, sight seeing flights, pipeline patrol, part 91 commercial flight operations. Generally these jobs guarantee you will be home almost every night.

My current flight instructor does a lot of part 91 flying on the side. From what I see he is home every night. Some days he doesn't work at all. Some days he is gone until 3AM. All the flight instructors at my school are generally home every night. Maybe once or twice a semester, an instructor might go with two students on a cross country to places like Chicago or Denver. They're always home after being away only one or two nights. One of my friends I go to school with flies part time sky diving flights. He is home every night. Even being a cargo pilot at a small company flying Cessna 208s guarantees you a fairly consistent schedule.

Don't forget there is more out there than the big airlines.

The OP wants to be a airline pilot.

suraj, on Feb 15 2012, 12:06 AM, said:

the problem is people don't want to work for things. People that are flying airliners do have quite the dream job, especially who's parents that are pilots I have talked to. They love what they do, it's just getting there which was the hard part. If you truly have the determination, than you can achieve anything, even your dreams, I have seen it been done.

For instance, this one lady, she works for my grand parents in India, they have a helper system there, and she works for a lot of people, and doesn't make much money. She's been doing it since she has been really young. She had a child when she was very young. Growing up she was taught good family values, and because of that she is working very hard just so she can provide an education for her son. 20 years later she is putting her son through University where he is working on his engineering degree, and she is still working very hard just to help pay for his school. She literally brought her family up from the bottom, and gave her son the chance to lead a "normal" life.

All in all, I really think it's about using your head, and how determined you are. Yes she may have not had the life she was hoping for, however she gave that chance to her son, and from what she tells us, she wouldn't as for anything more than that. So all in all, she is absolutely thrilled to see him doing what he enjoys.

Edit: it all depends on your attitude towards life as well. Like Scavers said you have to know what you want, but if you do, please whatever you do, do not give up just because things don't go as planned. If you truly love it, remind yourself what you're working towards, and make your dreams come true. I know that sounds cliche, but like I said, I have seen people work their way up from the "bottom"

That is not how the real world works. When it comes to commercial aviation, you're going to be borderline homeless and starving for your first 10 to 15 years. The standard payrate for entry level pilots is 20 to 30k a year gross. Money makes the world go around. Not your attitude. The people that make it from the bottom have parents/family with deep pockets. If you want to be a independent person, or you don't have a rich family willing to financially support you, this is not a good career choice.

Edited by THBatMan8, 15 February 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[suraj]

THBatMan8, on Feb 15 2012, 09:58 AM, said:

Every job has it's pet peeves. There is no such thing as the perfect job. Traveling for a living gets very old, very fast. If you want to have a personal life as well, this is not the job to get into as you will rarely be home. They will put on a false front to you because you are the general public with a interest in aviation, but you have no clue what goes on behind closed doors.
The OP wants to be a airline pilot.
That is not how the real world works. When it comes to commercial aviation, you're going to be borderline homeless and starving for your first 10 to 15 years. The standard payrate for entry level pilots is 20 to 30k a year gross. Money makes the world go around. Not your attitude. The people that make it from the bottom have parents/family with deep pockets. If you want to be a independent person, or you don't have a rich family willing to financially support you, this is not a good career choice.

Did you not read the example I wrote? She was literally at the bottom, and brought her family up. He will get a job in the engineering field and will make lots of money, that is if he uses it correctly as well. I understand the fact that if your parents don't have deep pockets then it is a struggle to make it in this line. I just think if it's really something you want to do, you can make it happen, and then it definitely depends on your attitude. People who have nothing sometimes are happier than those who make millions. That is a fact, and it all comes down to your perspective on life.

[Max.]

You can only really regret the things you don't do in life.