156 replies to this topic

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 13 2011, 01:54 PM, said:

If I could thank that post 1,000 times, I would. Well said.

Haha. You can buy me a beer next time you pass through my town

[THBatMan8]

Fate01_VUSAFS, on Aug 13 2011, 01:57 PM, said:

Haha. You can buy me a beer next time you pass through my town

Deal.  

[HighFlyin]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 13 2011, 10:33 AM, said:

You're generalizing the industry.
You fail to see my point, so I will not repeat myself like a broken record until you do.

Why is it that I fail to see your point? We all see your point, and in many of our opinion, it's wrong.

What you are saying is the equivalent as saying that base camp, (while climbing mount Everest), is a pointless endeavor  and totally irrelevant to summiting the top, simply because you don't stay at base camp.

Again, just because you don't work in the field you studied in, doesn't make it irrelevant. Like Bean said, many employers in the work force look for this experience because it typically makes a person more rounded, shows drive and ambition and helps polish their organization and time management skills.

The skills you pick up in school go much deeper then the subject you studied.

Edited by HighFlyin, 18 August 2011 - 06:32 AM.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

HighFlyin, on Aug 18 2011, 07:29 AM, said:

Why is it that I fail to see your point? We all see your point, and in many of our opinion, it's wrong.

What you are saying is the equivalent as saying that base camp, (while climbing mount Everest), is a pointless endeavor  and totally irrelevant to summiting the top, simply because you don't stay at base camp.

Again, just because you don't work in the field you studied in, doesn't make it irrelevant. Like Bean said, many employers in the work force look for this experience because it typically makes a person more rounded, shows drive and ambition and helps polish their organization and time management skills.

The skills you pick up in school go much deeper then the subject you studied.

Meh, depends on the courses you take

[THBatMan8]

HighFlyin, on Aug 18 2011, 05:29 AM, said:

Why is it that I fail to see your point? We all see your point, and in many of our opinion, it's wrong.

What you are saying is the equivalent as saying that base camp, (while climbing mount Everest), is a pointless endeavor  and totally irrelevant to summiting the top, simply because you don't stay at base camp.

Again, just because you don't work in the field you studied in, doesn't make it irrelevant. Like Bean said, many employers in the work force look for this experience because it typically makes a person more rounded, shows drive and ambition and helps polish their organization and time management skills.

The skills you pick up in school go much deeper then the subject you studied.

Bean is generalizing the industry. A degree does not make a employee more rounded, that is also a generalization. What makes a employee more rounded is work history. Really the only time when a degree is 'required' is when your field requires licensing. A doctor, lawyer, nurse, etc. But in reality, you can pass the needed tests to become licensed in these fields without ever needing to go to school for a degree. Look no further than Abraham Lincoln for a example (self taught lawyer).

Take my sister for example. She's a district manager for a fast food chain who manages multiple stores. The job 'requires' a degree in business management, but she doesn't have said degree. How did she get the job? Work history. She's been working in fast food restaurants her entire adult life.

A degree requirement for particular jobs does nothing more than give you that backround you otherwise wouldn't have. It doesn't make you a better employee, and it doesn't give you a 'edge'. Also, a degree does not help you obtain management and orginization skills. That's something you learn on your own.

Edited by Richard_Nixon, 18 August 2011 - 11:17 PM.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

You learn different stuff on the job than you would in the classroom. You learn SOMETHING in both, one being hands-on experience and the other the principles and theories behind it. Some jobs do require you, or at the very least benefit you, by having a degree. Others, not so much.

Why do factory workers get pissed when they work on the same machine for 20 years and some 25 year old comes in with a business degree and becomes manager? Because he has management training and the machinist doesn't.

_____________________________________________

I think this topic can gone off the rail way too much.

Edited by Fate01_VUSAFS, 19 August 2011 - 12:23 AM.

[HighFlyin]

In general, having a degree will make you more attractive to a wider range of employers. This is why people here get one.

I don't care what you say, having no degree severely limits what you can and can't do in the work force.

In any event, we're not going to see eye to eye on this so let's just agree to disagree?

I'm sure the OP is absolutely confused now lol.

[THBatMan8]

HighFlyin, on Aug 19 2011, 05:08 AM, said:

In general, having a degree will make you more attractive to a wider range of employers. This is why people here get one.

I don't care what you say, having no degree severely limits what you can and can't do in the work force.

In any event, we're not going to see eye to eye on this so let's just agree to disagree?

I'm sure the OP is absolutely confused now lol.

No it does not for the umpti billionth time. If the degree doesn't relate to your field, all it does is give you 2 years of steady work history. A history degree doesn't make you a better pilot. A masters in physics doesn't make you a better truck driver.

Reread my posts. I'm tired of repeating myself like a broken record.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

HighFlyin, on Aug 19 2011, 07:08 AM, said:

In general, having a degree will make you more attractive to a wider range of employers. This is why people here get one.

I don't care what you say, having no degree severely limits what you can and can't do in the work force.

In any event, we're not going to see eye to eye on this so let's just agree to disagree?

I'm sure the OP is absolutely confused now lol.

+1

[HighFlyin]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 02:27 PM, said:

No it does not for the umpti billionth time. If the degree doesn't relate to your field, all it does is give you 2 years of steady work history. A history degree doesn't make you a better pilot. A masters in physics doesn't make you a better truck driver.

Reread my posts. I'm tired of repeating myself like a broken record.

And you know this because you've applied to every job out there right? Partaken in every interview right? Lived in every country right?

Why can't you just except that this is a world wide flight forum with members from dozens of different countires and what may be true where you are, isn't exactly true everywhere else.

Edited by HighFlyin, 19 August 2011 - 01:51 PM.

[THBatMan8]

HighFlyin, on Aug 19 2011, 12:42 PM, said:

And you know this because you've applied to every job out there right? Lived in every country right?

What makes you any different? You keep calling me biased when you're just as bad. You're so dead set that getting a degree is everything, when it isn't.

A DEGREE IS NOT REQUIRED TO BECOME A PILOT AND IS A WASTE OF TIME

Quit throwing this off topic. I'm referring to becomming a commercial pilot. Not the industry as a whole. Just because I say something doesn't mean it's open for debate. If you continue to derail this thread further by feeding more biased nonsense in a attempt to try to prove me wrong, then you can join my ignore list.

Edited by Richard_Nixon, 19 August 2011 - 01:51 PM.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 02:48 PM, said:

What makes you any different? You keep calling me biased when you're just as bad. You're so dead set that getting a degree is everything, when it isn't.

A DEGREE IS NOT REQUIRED TO BECOME A PILOT AND IS A WASTE OF TIME

Quit throwing this off topic. I'm referring to becomming a commercial pilot. Not the industry as a whole.

It's not necessarily a waste of time. They are companies that specifically advertise for employees with degrees. I see them all the time. There are also a lot of internship opportunities for college students that other pilots might not have.

It just depends on the company and position you want to work for.

[THBatMan8]

Fate01_VUSAFS, on Aug 19 2011, 12:49 PM, said:

It's not necessarily a waste of time. They are companies that specifically advertise for employees with degrees. I see them all the time. There are also a lot of internship opportunities for college students that other pilots might not have.

It just depends on the company and position you want to work for.

Again, I'm referring to being a pilot. Y'all need to read my entire post and not part of it.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 02:52 PM, said:

Again, I'm referring to being a pilot. Y'all need to read my entire post and not part of it.

I read it very well. You said you do not need a degree to be a pilot. This is 100% true. You also said it is a waste of me to get a degree if you want to be a pilot. This is 100% false.

[HighFlyin]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 02:48 PM, said:

What makes you any different? You keep calling me biased when you're just as bad. You're so dead set that getting a degree is everything, when it isn't.

A DEGREE IS NOT REQUIRED TO BECOME A PILOT AND IS A WASTE OF TIME

Quit throwing this off topic. I'm referring to becomming a commercial pilot. Not the industry as a whole. Just because I say something doesn't mean it's open for debate. If you continue to derail this thread further by feeding more biased nonsense in a attempt to try to prove me wrong, then you can join my ignore list.

I thought you drove trucks for a living?

[THBatMan8]

HighFlyin, on Aug 19 2011, 01:06 PM, said:

I thought you drove trucks for a living?

I do drive trucks for a living. I also understand and know the commercial aviation industry better than most on the forum, because driving a truck is similar to flying a plane (commercially) in many ways. A degree does not make you a better pilot, hence, it doesn't make you a better employee.

Even with jobs that do require a degree, it's up to the human recources department to hire you, not the degree. You can have the right degree and still not get the job. Having a degree doesn't mean you're set for life like you're portraying.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 03:11 PM, said:

I do drive trucks for a living. I also understand and know the commercial aviation industry better than most on the forum, because driving a truck is similar to flying a plane (commercially) in many ways. A degree does not make you a better pilot, hence, it doesn't make you a better employee.

Even with jobs that do require a degree, it's up to the human recources department to hire you, not the degree. You can have the right degree and still not get the job. Having a degree doesn't mean you're set for life like you're portraying.

Many pilots don't know the inner workings of the industry, the legislative side of it, or even some of the dynamics that surround the principles of flight, weather, or physiological factors of being a pilot. That's the stuff you learn in college. Maybe it doesn't make you a better pilot skill-wise, but you have more knowledge of what's going on around you. Flight training gives you the hands-on experience that you need to tune your skills in order to handle the aircraft. School gives you the classroom knowledge of the different areas of operation.

You can't really say "you don't need this or that" until you're in the pilot seat. When working with passengers and managing a flight crew, having education in management and the components of the aviation industry might very well help you, but it's not a necessity.

Go to school if you think it's what you need to do in order to expand your knowledge base for your duties with that job, but don't do it just to get the flight training. It's not a degree that's cheap, but there are some companies that will pull you in over the guy that doesn't have the degree.

It might be like driving a truck in the sense that you have to multitask and focus your concentration on many areas at one time, as well as meet schedule deadlines and ensure you're within regulations, but it's an entirely separate career path and they are very different in the respect of what you are doing and what training it requires.

[THBatMan8]

Fate01_VUSAFS, on Aug 19 2011, 01:36 PM, said:

Many pilots don't know the inner workings of the industry, the legislative side of it, or even some of the dynamics that surround the principles of flight, weather, or physiological factors of being a pilot. That's the stuff you learn in college. Maybe it doesn't make you a better pilot skill-wise, but you have more knowledge of what's going on around you. Flight training gives you the hands-on experience that you need to tune your skills in order to handle the aircraft. School gives you the classroom knowledge of the different areas of operation.

You can't really say "you don't need this or that" until you're in the pilot seat. When working with passengers and managing a flight crew, having education in management and the components of the aviation industry might very well help you, but it's not a necessity.

Go to school if you think it's what you need to do in order to expand your knowledge base for your duties with that job, but don't do it just to get the flight training. It's not a degree that's cheap, but there are some companies that will pull you in over the guy that doesn't have the degree.

It might be like driving a truck in the sense that you have to multitask and focus your concentration on many areas at one time, as well as meet schedule deadlines and ensure you're within regulations, but it's an entirely separate career path and they are very different in the respect of what you are doing and what training it requires.

Actually the demand aspect of both jobs is equally high. For one, pilots don't deal with the passengers. That's the FA's job.

No college teaches you how to handle people as a manager. When you go to school for business management, you are taught things like payroll, powerpoint, office, etc; none of which apply to being a pilot. Your job as a pilot is to safely fly the plane, and that's it. You don't schedule who will be on the plane with you and who won't. Managing employees (in the sense of how you treat them and how well you handle the job) is something you learn on your own. Organization is something you learn on your own. Having a degree in business management doesn't mean that you're manager material. It just means you know how to do payroll, scheduling, etc.

The only time when companies require a degree in business management is when they don't want to train you. If they are willing to train you, then the degree isn't needed.

Edited by Richard_Nixon, 19 August 2011 - 02:59 PM.

[Fate01_VUSAFS]

Richard_Nixon, on Aug 19 2011, 03:50 PM, said:

Actually the demand aspect of both jobs is equally high. For one, pilots don't deal with the passengers. That's the FA's job.

No college teaches you how to handle people as a manager. When you go to school for business management, you are taught things like payroll, powerpoint, office, etc; none of which apply to being a pilot. Your job as a pilot is to safely fly the plane, and that's it. You don't schedule who will be on the plane with you and who won't. Managing employees (in the sense of how you treat them and how well you handle the job) is something you learn on your own. Orginization is something you learn on your own. Having a degree in business management doesn't mean that you're manager material. It just means you know how to do payroll, scheduling, etc.

I haven't had a single class on payroll, finance, or scheduling.  

Management teaches you about the components of a business, different types of management, different types of businesses, project planning and group networking/coordination.

I'm an aviation management major. My classes consist of a mix of management, economics, and computer tech in the business part. The technology part (which aviation falls under) consists of the principles of aviation and aeronautics, Air Traffic Control, flight dynamics, human factors in flight, aviation law and safety, airport management, private pilot ground school, and aviation weather.

If you want to go to college and be a commercial pilot, these are not the courses to take. You want to take the courses that fall under the flight training guidelines. You would take the same aviation courses that I did, but you would also have additional courses in in-flight training and ground school. You could also major in aviation management and minor in flight to get your CPL.

[THBatMan8]

Fate01_VUSAFS, on Aug 19 2011, 02:02 PM, said:

I haven't had a single class on payroll, finance, or scheduling.  

Management teaches you about the components of a business, different types of management, different types of businesses, project planning and group networking/coordination.

I'm an aviation management major. My classes consist of a mix of management, economics, and computer tech in the business part. The technology part (which aviation falls under) consists of the principles of aviation and aeronautics, Air Traffic Control, flight dynamics, human factors in flight, aviation law and safety, airport management, private pilot ground school, and aviation weather.

If you want to go to college and be a commercial pilot, these are not the courses to take. You want to take the courses that fall under the flight training guidelines. You would take the same aviation courses that I did, but you would also have additional courses in in-flight training and ground school. You could also major in aviation management and minor in flight to get your CPL.

That's the point I've been trying to make this whole thread. Now I hope you understand why I get frustrated when people cant properly comprehend reading. If you do opt for a degree, get something that relates to the field. Anything else is a waste of time because employers want recency of experience.

Don't believe me? Get a degree in engineering. Fly a plane for 5 years and get laid off. Get back to me when you can't find a job as a engineer.

Edited by Richard_Nixon, 19 August 2011 - 03:18 PM.