130 replies to this topic

[Prancer]

Ok, picture this: You are given the choice on where to land, and you choose JFK. You have no experience. If you come in too low, you go into the drink. If you over shoot, A.)you'll have to go around which is a heck of a lot harder that flying elsewhere, or B.)You'll start crashing into things, like the Southwest jet at Midway. The magin for error, and you will most definitly make errors, is very, very, very, very low. Now, if you try to find something more open, like say a field or the ocean, there's less people around and no obstruction, and you have ample clear space, you're margin for error is signifcantly higher. You don't have a narrow 10,000 foot strip of concrete, you have a several miles by several miles open space with little or no obstruction at all.

Edited by Zarquen, 23 February 2006 - 05:19 PM.

[shoumik]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

Ok, picture this: You are given the choice on where to land, and you choose JFK. You have no experience. If you come in too low, you go into the drink. If you over shoot, A.)you'll have to go around which is a heck of a lot harder that flying elsewhere, or B.)You'll start crashing into things, like the Southwest jet at Midway. The magin for error, and you will most definitly make errors, is very, very, very, very low. Now, if you try to find something more open, like say a field or the ocean, there's less people around and no obstruction, and you have ample clear space, you're margin for error is signifcantly higher. You don't have a narrow 10,000 foot strip of concrete, you have a several miles by several miles open space with little or no obstruction at all.

Why are u making this harder then it is.
Look: its a SIM PILOT! He doesnt no 100% of the stuff, at most he knows 10%. How is he going to locate a feild big enough for a 747 to land in carrying over 400 people. If u declare an emergancy landing the will clear everything! there will me no northwest in the middle of the run way. Thats why its called an "emergancy landing". There will be plice, ambulence, fire fighters....etc.

[Prancer]

Quote

How is he going to locate a feild big enough for a 747 to land in carrying over 400 people.

The highly technical process of looking out the window. You have an entire ocean below you. The planes are designed to stay afloat for awhile in the event of a water landing, and they can have the Coast Guard out there in a matter of minutes

Quote

If u declare an emergancy landing the will clear everything!

They cannot clear all the buidlings, cars, fences, pedestrians, trees, signs, etc that have encroached up to the airport that if you screw up, you will most likely plow into and end even more lives. One thing that pilots commonly do in emergencies where there is a very high chance that aircraft will not make a succesful landing is they get as far away from any of that stuff as they possibly can before they do anything else. Pilots have even died because they were trying to save people on the ground, and eventually couldn't make it. This isn't like FS2004 where you have lttle 'eye candies' that will not be affected if you hit them. You're ultimate responsibility is to minimilize human casualties.

[shoumik]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

How is he going to locate a feild big enough for a 747 to land in carrying over 400 people.

The highly technical process of looking out the window. You have an entire ocean below you. The planes are designed to stay afloat for awhile in the event of a water landing, and they can have the Coast Guard out there in a matter of minutes

Quote

If u declare an emergancy landing the will clear everything!

They cannot clear all the buidlings, cars, fences, pedestrians, trees, signs, etc that have encroached up to the airport that if you screw up, you will most likely plow into and end even more lives. One thing that pilots commonly do in emergencies where there is a very high chance that aircraft will not make a succesful landing is they get as far away from any of that stuff as they possibly can before they do anything else. Pilots have even died because they were trying to save people on the ground, and eventually couldn't make it. This isn't like FS2004 where you have lttle 'eye candies' that will not be affected if you hit them. You're ultimate responsibility is to minimilize human casualties.

dude a 747 will not get cracked up by a simple sighn that is away from the runway. They can have everything cleared. Like i said the buildings are far from JFK, i should know i live very close to JFK. Thats what pilots try to do but u don't have a real world pilot flying the 747. You have a sim pilot whose ultimate goal is just to land the thing, obviously the 747 will take damage. The sim pilots goal is to just land and save as much passengers as possible either way. Lnading on a military base or JFK. Both ways he/she would have trouable landing the thing. and going to the military base just makes it harder.

[Prancer]

Like I said, ditch in the ocean. Plenty of room to put down, the jet would float long enough to get people off, the Coast Guard would be on their way.

[Carter]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 02:10 PM, said:

Like I said, ditch in the ocean. Plenty of room to put down, the jet would float long enough to get people off, the Coast Guard would be on their way.

A ditch is usually considered to be more dangerous than a wheels up or 'controlled crash' landing. There is NO WAY that a pilot or sim pilot not versed in heavies could sucessfully ditch in the ocean, too many variables.

Edited by Carter, 23 February 2006 - 06:30 PM.

[shoumik]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

Like I said, ditch in the ocean. Plenty of room to put down, the jet would float long enough to get people off, the Coast Guard would be on their way.

The 747 carrying more then 400 people plus all that cargo that comes from the 400 people would float long enough to evacute ALL the 400 people on board?

[Speedbird_one]

shoumik, on Feb 24 2006, 12:17 AM, said:

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

Like I said, ditch in the ocean. Plenty of room to put down, the jet would float long enough to get people off, the Coast Guard would be on their way.

The 747 carrying more then 400 people plus all that cargo that comes from the 400 people would float long enough to evacute ALL the 400 people on board?

Yes.

THe 747 is primerilly used over trans cotinnetal flights so there will be alot of water it will have to cross.

The 747 has many escape routes it is not a simple matter of filing everyone through one door.

[shoumik]

OK but i still would land it on the runway.
And one of my choices was to follow the crews advise and jump on the water.
But i would prefer to land it in the runway.

[Speedbird_one]

shoumik, on Feb 24 2006, 12:27 AM, said:

OK but i still would land it on the runway.
And one of my choices was to follow the crews advise and jump on the water.
But i would prefer to land it in the runway.

Jump in the water?

[shoumik]

well i meant jump in the water or slide to the water. Whatever, that choice was supposed to mean a ditch of the 747.

Edited by shoumik, 23 February 2006 - 06:37 PM.

[Prancer]

Well, if that's what the crew advises you to do, than that's the smarter thing to do. They obviously have had training and experience in this area.

[shoumik]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 06:38 PM, said:

Well, if that's what the crew advises you to do, than that's the smarter thing to do. They obviously have had training and experience in this area.

There you go Zarqueen, a simple choice that u would do in a situation like this. We didn't need to know the "hard cold reality".  
But the poll shows that most of us would rather fly it all the way to JFK.

[Prancer]

shoumik, on Feb 23 2006, 06:48 PM, said:

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 06:38 PM, said:

Well, if that's what the crew advises you to do, than that's the smarter thing to do. They obviously have had training and experience in this area.

There you go Zarqueen, a simple choice that u would do in a situation like this. We didn't need to know the "hard cold reality".  
But the poll shows that most of us would rather fly it all the way to JFK.

Yes, I know we all want the glory, and to be able to say 'I flew a 747 into one of the world's busiest airports'.
And drop that extra 'e' in my name.  

[shoumik]

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

shoumik, on Feb 23 2006, 06:48 PM, said:

Zarquen, on Feb 23 2006, 06:38 PM, said:

Well, if that's what the crew advises you to do, than that's the smarter thing to do. They obviously have had training and experience in this area.

There you go Zarqueen, a simple choice that u would do in a situation like this. We didn't need to know the "hard cold reality".  
But the poll shows that most of us would rather fly it all the way to JFK.

Yes, I know we all want the glory, and to be able to say 'I flew a 747 into one of the world's busiest airports'.
And drop that extra 'e' in my name.  

well if the 400 passengers plus the sim pilot make it through then they can say what ever they want. I made a spelling mistake, no harm done.

[spiezy]

i would try my best to fly it. its worth a try.

[UltimatePilotAce]

O Boy..........every topic about this, ended up the same way.

[N3123V]

shoumik, on Feb 23 2006, 06:27 PM, said:

And one of my choices was to follow the crews advise and jump on the water.

What is the Vs0 for a 747, like 125 KIAS? so you are telling me that you wouldn't mind jumping out of a 747 at (probably the lowest you can go would be about 1,000 ft [I honestly don't know how low you would be able to go]) flying along at 125 KIAS with no parachute into the ocean? I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to choose that one. To be honest with you, I don't think that everyone would just sit back and do nothing awaiting their deaths. But I doubt that anyone else on the flight would just happen to know how to fly a 747 either unless there was a third pilot. Like the others have said, let the third pilot do his/her job.

[shoumik]

N3123V, on Feb 23 2006, 09:36 PM, said:

shoumik, on Feb 23 2006, 06:27 PM, said:

And one of my choices was to follow the crews advise and jump on the water.

What is the Vs0 for a 747, like 125 KIAS? so you are telling me that you wouldn't mind jumping out of a 747 at (probably the lowest you can go would be about 1,000 ft [I honestly don't know how low you would be able to go]) flying along at 125 KIAS with no parachute into the ocean? I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to choose that one. To be honest with you, I don't think that everyone would just sit back and do nothing awaiting their deaths. But I doubt that anyone else on the flight would just happen to know how to fly a 747 either unless there was a third pilot. Like the others have said, let the third pilot do his/her job.

Well regarding the polls there are people here who would rather do nothing. It wouldint be in my interest in jumping in the ice cold water of the Atlantic. But then again people have suggested in "ditiching" the 747 into the water. I also bet that in a tough situation like this no one would have the guts to go up to the cockpit and fly. But thats just my opinion.

[AmericanAirFan]

Zarquen, on Feb 22 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

AmericanAirFan, on Feb 22 2006, 09:42 PM, said:

Just declare an emergency and explain that you have what it takes,

Ever read Tom Clancey's book 'Without Remorse'? Similar situation to what you described, except this guy turned off course at the last minute and rammed the capital.

Do you seriously think, that in a post-9/11 world, that they're going to say "I'll take you for your word'? They have no idea who you are, and you're flying towards one of the most populated cities on earth. Anyone could just say 'I have what it takes' over the radio. Trust me, they will treat it almost like a hijacking, probably even as far as have you checked out by police when you land, and most definitly they will ram the landing gear when you stop the plane to make sure you don't try anything.

Edit: and if you think they'll believe you with the 'at least the people on board will have a chance' mindset, think again. The way of thinking of the people on the ground is 400 lives is a small price to pay to save several thousand lives on the ground.

Simple show the F/As your pilots license have the flight attendants Assure air traffic control I didn't go and do something to the pilots and I can also explain every system that would be involved in getting the plane down and I would let them know my contacts (mom dad sister brother grand parents) so thats like a background check that's like more than enough to convince ATC, now what were you saying?

Edited by AmericanAirFan, 23 February 2006 - 09:48 PM.